Podcast Transcript
Attendees:
Joshua Boswell, Margie Boswell, Mr. Chazz.
Transcript:
Joshua Boswell: Hey everybody, welcome to the Happy Family Club podcast. We are so delighted to have you here today. What I treat it is… we have the one, the only, the famous, fabulous Mr. Chazz with us today. Such a great treat.
Margie Boswell: Thank you for joining us. Wow.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah it's really cool.
Mr. Chazz: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here, happy to help.
Joshua Boswell: So those of you who’ve… if you haven't seen a lot of Mr. Chazz's videos, shame on. You got to go and do that. Actually I shouldn't use shame… Let me see. Go do that. But he's… Mr. Chazz is one of the best I've ever seen at having conversations with himself and taking different perspectives on stuff.
Margie Boswell: It’s great!
Joshua Boswell: And like… playing the role of a child, and then of a battered wife and all kinds of stuff… teachers. Yes. So he's just marvelous doing that and brings incredible perspective to the field, which we get to hear today. We're excited. So do you want to tell them a little bit of what we know so far? And then we'll get some more into your background here in a second, Mr. Chazz.
Margie Boswell: Well as we researched and look at your stuff, Mr. Chazz, we realize that our missions are really aligned. And the vision that we have for what we're doing in this world and we just love it. So we love working with like-minded people and sharing your message with the world. Mr. Chazz's mission is to help adults truly see and guide and trust children. And I love that.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: Children are so important in our world. He's kind of pushing the needle, closer and closer toward peace with this approach.
Joshua Boswell: That’s right.
Margie Boswell: Peace in our homes, peace with our families, peace with children.
Joshua Boswell: Peace in the world, Think about the families he’s impacted…
Margie Boswell: That's right.
Joshua Boswell: And that their family now is one step closer to laying down the contention and having more peace, having more respect and trust for those kids. It’s so vital.
Margie Boswell: Yeah. He's also a consultant, which is wonderful. Making a difference for individuals. It’s awesome… and groups. He's a parent coach. He's a Conscious Discipline Practitioner, which… I love that term. That's amazing.
Joshua Boswell: We’re going to dig more into that.
Margie Boswell: Yeah, you’ll have to tell us more about that.
Mr. Chazz: I will.
Margie Boswell: Yeah, he's also a podcaster. Yeah, and he creates content. Lots of content. He goes by Mr. Chazz, and he even has a song to prove it. So we'd love to hear about that too.
Joshua Boswell: Love the song. Maybe at the end we’ll entice him to sing it for us?
Mr. Chazz: Okay, We'll see. We’ll see.
Joshua Boswell: So, I think I want to start off with a little bit of your background. Because I think it is so fascinating, what you do. I mean, there's… number one, there's not a lot of men in the world today… I think there are more than we think, but we have a sense that there's not a lot of men that actually engage in the process. And I would just love to hear, How did you get here? I mean, you've got hundreds of thousands of followers on Facebook. You've got a lot of people engaging with your stuff…. How did you get to this spot? What's the back story?
Mr. Chazz: So I'll try to give the condensed version.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah Okay.
Margie Boswell: Thank you!
Mr. Chazz: I started off as a Montessori teacher. And when I started off I really didn't know what I was doing. I struggled a lot. I used a lot of the same strategies that I was raised with. A lot of the fear and control based tactics.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Realized that didn't feel good to me, and I also realized that they were just some problems with how effective it was. And so I really went out to just learn a different way. Because I knew that just had to be a better way. And that's when I really started on my journey of just kind of unlearning a lot of things and… learning a lot of new strategies, a lot more connection and collaborative-based strategies.
That made an impact, not only in my classroom, but other teachers started to see the impact.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: They started to ask me for advice that I… you know, a light bulb went off for me and I became an educational specialist where my role was to go and support teachers in different schools.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Mr. Chazz: With what they were struggling with. And I was just kind of sharing just what I learned along my journey. Pandemic happened, a lot of teachers and parents or a lot of teachers and kids went home and… Parents were 24/7, everything for their children.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: I thought that I could share some of those lessons with the parents through… and that's when I started social media, and started sharing through Tiktok, Instagram, Facebook… that turned into a podcast, Mr. Chazz's Leadership Parenting and Teaching Podcast where you can actually hear that Mr. Chazz song in the beginning of every episode. So if I don't sing it here, you can always hear it there...
Joshua Boswell: We will include it in this recording, I promise you, we'll make sure that everyone here has the Mr. Jazz song.
Mr. Chazz: And so that's what kind of put me on this trajectory of sharing online. And it just has grown. As I've been finding different ways to help people. Some people, you know… I do one-on-one coaching, but sometimes that's not always feasible and accessible. I've have an online course, because that's more accessible for some people. I have a free podcast because that's more accessible for some people.
I'm introducing people to new resources every single episode. So, I'm just finding all these different ways to try to help people and just kind of share this message so that they can be impacted in their life, in their family’s life and the children's lives can change the way that I experience it.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. So can we go back…? I mean, I think it's really amazing that you… I don't know the time frame, and that's what I’d love to hear is… You start off as a Montessori teacher… Why? What got you involved in that? There had to be a backstory, even to that. I'd love to see what happened there.
Mr. Chazz: Well the back sort to that is probably not as inspiring as you're hoping it to be.
Joshua Boswell: Hahaha.
Mr. Chazz: The reality is, my friend got a summer job, and I needed a summer job too. And I was hoping to make a little bit of money. And that’s exactly… I made a little bit of money. It was minimum wage.
Joshua Boswell: Really a little bit. Emphasis on little.
Mr. Chazz: And, I knew that I enjoyed kids, but… the inspiration and the love for what I was doing came a little bit later as I was working with them. As I really got to spend time with children, that's when it was like, Wow, I'm making such a huge impact. These little humans that are going to like… What I do impacts them so much.
Margie Boswell: Yes.
Mr. Chazz: And that impacts each other, and so that’s when I started to really be inspired. I really had to start spending time with children. And then also, learning about the Montessori philosophy, and Maria Montessori's philosophy.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And her perspective… which is a really good starting off point for me to start to see things in a different way. And so it wasn't like, Oh, I'm gonna go work with kids, I'm gonna go change the world… That's not how it started at all…
Margie Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: But it has become that.
Joshua Boswell: I actually love this answer, and the reason is… because we deal with a lot of parents. And we find that sometimes parents are like… they didn't start off like, Yes I totally love kids. They got married or they had this relationship and then the woman found out she was expecting, and then they had kids and… Sometimes parents walk into this almost begrudgingly. It's like… I've even heard parents say, Well that kid was an accident, right?
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: But then we see this… Oftentimes we see this transformation. Because I've talked to parents that delayed having children because they wanted to travel the world and they want to do lots of different things… this, that and the other. And then you hold that little tiny baby for the first time…
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And you start dealing with that child… And it's like something just so magical and sacred happens, you know?
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: I sense that in you, Mr. Chazz. Like… you needed a little bit of money for the summer, and then it was like holy cow. There's something so special about working with these kids.
Margie Boswell: Well and then your experience actually working with them and doing, like you said, fear-based interactions and… you didn't feel comfortable with that, right? And so it kind of evolved for you as well.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah, no… Hundred percent. And even I had… not only was it just like the way that I was raised, But also it was a lot of people that I was working with were using those fear and control-based strategies.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And also really pushing me to be more like, You need to yell louder, you need to... And I tried it. I did all the things that I… discourage adults to do now. Like… I’ve done it before. And so I get it. And that's also helpful for me to have a point of empathy.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: To be like, I get where you're at, and I understand why you would use these strategies. Why you would resort to that. Which is also helpful for us to kind of move along and to learn and to grow together.
Joshua Boswell: Love it. So let's dive into some of those strategies. And I… You know the question that we're kind of famous for is, What is one specific principle that you believe would have a substantial impact in helping families be happier?
Mr. Chazz: Ooo man.
Joshua Boswell: And I'd love to hear your insights on that.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah. So here's one. And it's really hard. I mean it's… So, what I would say is, the only person that you can control and change is yourself. Right?
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Mr. Chazz: And when we focus on ourselves and what we can control, then we can have a profound influence and impact on others intentionally. But we can't necessarily control that other person.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: But by controlling ourselves, we can make such a great impact.
Joshua Boswell: I love that.
Margie Boswell: That’s wonderful.
Joshua Boswell: And I love what you said because sometimes people go into that, and it’s like, Okay, I want my relationship with my spouse to be better. I want to have a better relationship with my kids… and so I'm gonna do some stuff to make sure that they start changing.
Mr. Chazz: Right.
Margie Boswell: Make them change.
Joshua Boswell: It’s like… my behavior change is a leverage to get them… it’s a manipulation to get them to shift, right?
Mr. Chazz: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And then sometimes they don't shift. And it's like, well… I'm gonna go back to yelling and spanking and it’s like… well that doesn’t help.
Mr. Chazz: Right. And instead we want to focus more on like… what are the things that… how would we prefer for them to respond? How would we prefer for them to engage with their siblings or little brother or whoever it is. And how can I model that? Right?
Like… How can I show that as opposed to this, telling them to do it? It's the whole thing of like, Stop yelling at them!!!
Joshua Boswell: Right. Hahaha
Mr. Chazz: How can we… because what's happening here… And again, I want to go back to the empathy part. Because what's happening here, when we yell, “Stop yelling!” is that we're getting overwhelmed in our emotions and, as a result… because you don't know what else to do. We don’t have the skills. We haven't built the skill yet to find a different way to solve the problem. So we resort to yelling.
And many times, whether it's yelling or spanking or hitting or some kind of aggression, what we're yelling at them for is something that we want them to stop doing too. So we want them to stop using aggression to get what they want with their siblings.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: But by the way we’re trying to teach that is by using aggression to get them to do what we want, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And then the whole, “Do as I say, not as I do” just is not impactful.
Margie Boswell: Doesn't work.
Mr. Chazz: That's just not helpful and it's not great for building relationships. I mean… just think about any kind of boss or leader that you've ever had that has taken that approach. These are the kind of leaders that don't put us at our best.
Joshua Boswell: That's right. Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And oftentimes resentment gets built and it disrupts the relationship, which just disrupts the connection, and the collaboration, which is necessary for healthy guidance.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, I love that. So okay, maybe we can drill down a little bit deeper there.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah, let's do that.
Joshua Boswell: You know, this one principle of focusing on ourselves. I love this, and I wonder, you've dealt with so many parents and so many children. I wonder if you've seen the top one to five, serious things that it’s like, Look, parents… you need to work on yourself. And there's these three categories that if you focus on this, it'll make a really big difference. And I wonder what you've seen….
I mean, you mentioned yelling. So this lack of self-control and this thought of, I'm gonna control with force and with aggression. I think maybe we did dig deeper into that. But are there other things you see that consistently come up that's like… Parents working on themselves could include these categories. What are your thoughts there?
Mr. Chazz: I think a big thing that most people struggle with… just in general. I'm just talking about people in general.
00:20:00
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Parents, teachers, children… In all relationships is the practice of being able to self-regulate and respond. As opposed to just reacting.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Mr. Chazz: I think that's kind of like a big umbrella of things.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Because we have a tendency to just react emotionally. And the emotions are okay to have. It's just, we need to learn how to acknowledge them. You learn how to deal with them, as opposed to what a lot of us do is we push the emotion down until we blow. So we call that kind of the passive aggressive flip flop. Right?
Sometimes we'll be very passive and we’ll kind of push things down and let people cross our boundaries until we can't take anymore, and then we get aggressive, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: Or sometimes you go straight to aggression, as opposed to what we really… The skill we really need to practice is the skill of assertiveness. And that's really about clear communication and communicating, Hey, this thing is not okay with me. Do this instead.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And so we can drill down even deeper into… So self-regulation, assertiveness and I talk about… you said you're interested in hearing more about conscious discipline.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Margie Boswell: Yes.
Mr. Chazz: Almost a good way to answer this in terms of umbrellas. There's… In conscious discipline there's these seven skills of conscious discipline.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Mr. Chazz: And so we have Composure which kind of has a lot to do with self-regulation. We have Assertiveness. We have Choices. We have Encouragement. We have Positive Intent. We do have Consequences as well. I missed one there… I said Encouragement, I said Choices… Which am I missing? I’m missing one... Empathy. Right, the one I kind of already talked about.
And so these skills are all important for us to kind of use in tandem, but a lot of times we're not able to intentionally use skills and give two positive choices as opposed to… sometimes when we give choices, it’s like, You can either clean your room or else, right?
Joshua Boswell: Okay.
Mr. Chazz: And that’s not really… that’s kind of just a threat. It's not really a choice there.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: But sometimes it's hard to think of that. Like, Okay what two choices can I give in this situation?
Margie Boswell: In the moment.
Mr. Chazz: And maybe not in every situation Choices are going to be the best skill to use. And… maybe you need to use the skill of Encouragement, right? And Encouragement is all about, not just saying, Good job. But being specific about what was helpful.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And for example, you might say something like, You cleaned up the living room so that we can so we have room to play our game, right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: You cleaned off the table so that it's not dirty, you won't get bugs in our house, on our table and it's not gonna be sticky anymore. Really talking about the consequences of their actions.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And you might need the skill of consequences… Which I would love to dig into because in my opinion, that's the hardest skill… I think Composure in Consequences can be the hardest skill to use. And I say Consequences because our idea of Consequences is so tainted by the punishments that we received growing up. Because most of us were raised with just punishments.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Mr. Chazz: Which are just unrelated. And I can talk about that if you’d like… I can talk more about the different types of consequences and when to use them...
Margie Boswell: Well we've shared a lot with our viewers about trying to have natural consequences. Like you said. We don't want a messy table because we're going to get germs and bugs and we're all going to get sick. We need you to do your job and wash the table off. Or whatever it is. We need you to take the trash out because it's gonna build up. We can't live like that. But yeah.
Joshua Boswell: We’d love to hear…
Margie Boswell: Yeah. We'd love to hear your ideas of, How do you come up with a natural consequence, to whatever the situation is? You have some good advice for us.
Mr. Chazz: Right, so… think about it in three different categories. There's natural consequences which happen without the intervention of the adult, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: So the child… The child’s running inside the house. We tell them over and over again to walk inside. You might even say, Walking feet, walking feet. Walk when you’re inside, you can run when you’ew outside, right?
And the child’s got so much energy in their body and they’ve got so much physical… they have this need for physical activity which is whole other conversation.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: It's important to see that and try to help them have a healthy outlet. Find a way for them to meet their need in a way that's appropriate. But it's going to happen where they're gonna be running inside. They're gonna… and they're going to maybe trip, or run into something, or hurt themselves. That's a natural consequence, right? That happened without our intervention. We didn’t have to do anything. Now, I think what we can do to kind of maybe get a little bit more out of those natural consequences is one, what we won't do is say, I told you so! And use that opportunity to rub their face in it.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: But what we can do is kind of reflect on what happened. Come with empathy and talk about what happened. Like, Okay, I saw you were running and you bumped into the table and you hurt your head. I'm here for you. I'm here for you. And just be empathetic. Right? And then you can ask them, What can we do next time? So you don't hurt yourself again? Right?
Natural consequences motivate children to learn new skills. And so natural consequences are like the gold standard of consequences. They’re the best consequences. Because we will learn the most from them and that reflection will help them kind of create that…. Almost pattern in their brain to reflect when they experience natural consequences to reflect. Okay, well what happened? Let me kind of go through the story of what happened and maybe what can I do better? Let's do some critical thinking. What can I do differently next time right?
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Mr. Chazz: Natural consequences are the best consequences, right? Logical consequences are consequences are… they are related to what happened.
Margie Boswell: Mmm-hmm.
Mr. Chazz: They are reasonable, and they're respectful. And this is something that happens with adult intervention. And logical consequences are not always appropriate to use. Because logical consequences only motivate children if you use skills that they already have.
Joshua Boswell: Hmm. Interesting.
Mr. Chazz: So, if the child does not have this skill yet… it can be potentially harmful for us to just keep on using logical consequences, even though they're respectful, reasonable, and related.
And let me break that down a little bit because related means it's not just, You hit your brother so you… no dessert, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: That's not really teaching anything. And really, thinking about like… they hit their sibling because they're missing a skill here. There was something, just like us resorting to yelling, or aggression, or spanking. There was a problem that this child faced that they did not know how to solve. Maybe their brother was crossing a boundary. They didn’t know how to set the boundary. Right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: Or maybe someone wasn't respecting the boundary and they didn't know how to kind of self-regulate and figure out what to do when they’re trying to set a boundary that’s not respected. They don't know what to do in that moment.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Maybe they really wanted a toy that their sibling had and they had a hard time with impulse control or figuring out what to do about that, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: Or maybe someone took something from them… right? There's all these things. So we really need to think about, like, What skill is missing there? And be thoughtful about how we can teach those skills.
Joshua Boswell: Teach those skills, right.
Mr. Chazz: Reasonable… let's say they didn't clean up their toys, right. It's not reasonable to be like, Okay, I'm throwing all your toys in the trash, and you're never playing with them again. That's not reasonable, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And Respectful. Respectful doesn't mean… I think sometimes people think it means that like, Oh… honey. Will you… uh… please try to maybe… clean up your toys next time?
Mr. Chazz: Yeah, that's half communication.
Joshua Boswell: That's not respectful… that's passive. That's like flopping… you know, acquiescing your parenting rights? So yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Right? Right. And we want to be assertive. And we want… our tone communicates so much. We don't want to go to aggression, we also don't want to be in passivity.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And so for us to really be able to do that well, we need to be able to have our composure and self-regulate so we can intentionally communicate, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And so that is… that's Logical Consequences. And again, logical consequences help motivate children to use skills that they already have.
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hm
Mr. Chazz: Then there's something we call illogical consequences, or punishments. And those are just like that I gave a couple examples like, You didn't meet my expectations, so no dessert for dinner. They're not reasonable, it's not respectful, it's not related. I mean… and one way to kind of think about that is like, How would… if somebody like your partner or your boss or something… if they gave you just a punishment. You maybe made a typo on an email or you didn't turn something in on time or you came in late or something. Like, imagine if they were like, Go to the broom closet. Since you’re 45 years old, go to the group closet for 45 minutes and think about what you did.
Joshua Boswell: Hahaha… Love it.
Mr. Chazz: Oh and give me your cell phone too. Thank you. Right? It's just not helpful, right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And it's just us exerting our power over these little humans who have less power.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Because we can, and/or we don't have the skills. We don't know what else to do, or that's the programming that we got. Right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: So, it's a hard thing to learn to do… but it is so important to start going on the journey. To start improving. And it's not about being perfect. I want to say this… and I know I've been talking for a while, but after I've said all this, I think it's really important. Maybe the most important thing I'm gonna say, I'll probably say it again, is perfection doesn't exist.
Joshua Boswell: No, yeah.
Mr. Chazz: The perfect parents don't exist, perfect teachers don't exist. I say, Avoid being a perfectionist, be an improvenist, the goal isn't to be perfect.
Joshua Boswell: I love that.
Mr. Chazz: The goal is to improve a little every day.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, yeah.
Margie Boswell: I love that.
Joshua Boswell: So a couple of thoughts on that. I mean, Margie and I have… one of the things we dislike the most is when we hear parents say, Do this. Because I said so. It's like… and to use your categorical thing. That's not respectful, it's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's not related. It's just like… I have more power than you, and you will do it. You will comply. The implied else is the “or else.” Right? And the “or else” is usually number three, illogical punishment. And in a lot of areas, the “or else” is some kind of physical. Or else a spank, or else your broom closet without your cell phone, or else whatever. Right?
Mr. Chazz: Right, right. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So I love how you've broken that down into those four categories, the natural, logical and the illogical. I also love, and maybe we could talk a little bit more about this...
Actually there's two things I've got on my mind, but the natural helps them to learn new skills and provides a teaching opportunity. And the logical helps them to use the skills they already have. But sometimes, like you said, if we get that mixed up and we constantly are trying to get them to do something sans the skill to do it, we’re just… It's like that old expression of, If you do the same thing over and over again and expect different results, that's called insanity.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And parents go through that insanity all the time with their children.
Margie Boswell: They do.
Joshua Boswell: It’s like… your point to the toy. The child wants the toy. You see them fighting, siblings fighting, over a toy. And sometimes you think, Oh, my children are so bad. They're so undisciplined. And I think on one of your podcasts, or somewhere I think you said, He’s not a bad kid, he just wants a toy.
Mr. Chazz: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And he doesn't have the skill set because he's two or three or four or five, he doesn't have the skill set to effectively negotiate, communicate, delayed gratification, all that kind of stuff. It’s like… he’s not a bad kid, he just doesn't have the skills, so…
Mr. Chazz: Yeah, right. Just like you. Just like you're not a bad parent for… you know… losing your composure.
Joshua Boswell: Yes. Yes.
Mr. Chazz: And… doing things that are not aligned with your value system, right? Because it happens. Like… You desperately… you're listening to this podcast. So you're probably trying to improve and you're trying to grow. But that doesn't mean that sometimes you don't resort to things that you, you know… said that you wouldn't do.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Like, it might be yelling, it might be spanking, it might be just getting a little too rough or aggressive or whatever it is. It might be the silent treatment. It might be dismissing feelings. It might be all those things. And… I think it's important for us because we can get in this cycle too. Just the same way that we often judge our children, the same way, we all can also judge ourselves.
Margie Boswell: Judge yourself, right.
Mr. Chazz: And so it's important for us to have empathy for everyone in this situation here.
Joshua Boswell: Love it.
Mr. Chazz: Just like… have empathy for the children that the child is trying the best they can with the skills, knowledge and resources they have access to in that moment.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And you are too as a parent, you're trying the best you can with the skills, knowledge and resources you have access to you in that moment. It’s an important part of that, because there might be some days where you're getting it, you’re doing it as a parent. Like, you are getting them from point A to point B, getting them in the car, going… you're getting to the places on time.
Joshua Boswell: Right. With them dressed!
Mr. Chazz: Doing the whole everything…
Joshua Boswell: That’s important.
Mr. Chazz: Right. Right. There might be some days where that happens. And there are probably some days where that doesn't happen.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Where you are… maybe quicker to anger, or you are yelling a little bit more, or you are just not listening to what they're saying a little bit more. And it's not because you're bad, but it might be because you're hungry. It might be because you got your… You know… you’re stressed out about something at work or something. Someone's sick in the family, or maybe you're sick. Or maybe you just have a little bit less energy today because of your diet. Or maybe it's just the 68th time that you've said it, and you're just running out of steam and you haven't been able to identify when you're starting to get overwhelmed, and figure out what you need to do to kind of recharge and take care of yourself.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And maybe you don't have the resources that day or that week or maybe, mother in law’s there. The in-laws are in town and that's stressing you out. And now you feel like you're parenting to an audience. So you're… right? There's all these things… all these dynamics that are constantly impacting us as individuals and all of our relationships that can make all of this, like practicing, all these conscious discipline skills difficult to do.
Joshua Boswell: So… yeah. You know… I come from a fairly broken family. My parents were divorced twice and so I went through two pretty messy divorces, and… a lot of abuse and alcoholism and drug stuff in my background. Not for me personally, but siblings and parents… you know. So the world that I grew up in.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Margie grew up in this really idyllic, just beautiful world. And I wanted to… and I think you've done a lot of training on this lately, in terms of parenting with trauma and trying to break those generational chains of abuse and addictions and whatnot. And I'm the model child for that, like… I really… everything inside of me when I was 21 when we met. Everything inside of me wanted to create a new environment for my future family. So I met Margie, and Margie's family was like… They ate all their meals together. Wow, what was that? They had meals together. They spent time together. There was love imbued in the family circle, just dripping with it. Not that they were perfect, but it was amazing.
So I frequently… and there's a point to my dialogue here… but frequently in the beginning years of our marriage, I'd go to her parents and I'd be like, Okay, how did you do this? You're getting these results and your children, love each other and it was like… They’re so contributing to society, like, How'd you do this?
And her parents would answer… and I love them so much. They're both passed on now, but they would look at me kind of shrug their shoulders, and just be like, We don't know. They were unconsciously competent, right?
Margie Boswell: Yep.
Joshua Boswell: And the challenge for me as a dad, especially in the beginning years was, I didn't have the skills that you're talking about. So my question to you is… and I didn't really have a resource to go to. Like… I envisioned in my mind, Oh, my in-laws did such an amazing job. They could help teach me, right?
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: But they couldn't because they were unconsciously competent. They were just so good. They had been raised well and they just were doing what they had seen done. And that's not a negative to them at all. I think that's beautiful what they accomplished. But so my question is: A lot of times parents struggle to manage their children because, like what we're talking about here, it's a skill set their children need to learn. But the parents, like me, are totally devoid of the skills to train the skills, right?
Mr. Chazz: Yeah. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Teacher needs teaching. So I would love to hear your insights on how do parents get those skills? Especially if they've been raised completely devoid of them?
Mr. Chazz: I'm about to share a couple of resources that are helpful.
Joshua Boswell: Okay.
Mr. Chazz: If you're trying to learn these skills, especially the skill of self-regulation.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: That’s where it's all going to start. Because without our ability to respond, like we're going to just continue reacting and reacting and reacting. You can learn and get a lot of knowledge and information. But if you aren't able to self-regulate so you can use the information in the moment, then it is...
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: It's gonna be really frustrating because you're gonna almost see the vision of what to do… But then, I don't know… I see myself going to California but I don't have a car, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: So I would very much recommend, especially if you're trying to learn the skills of self-regulation while trying to teach your children.
Joshua Boswell: In the moment. Yeah. Okay.
Mr. Chazz: Is this book called Managing Emotional Mayhem: The Five Steps to Self-regulation. It is kind of like a conscious discipline resource. And it’s not only teaching you. It's almost kind of like a little bit of a workbook style. I don't want to say it's a workbook style, but there's a lot of opportunity to kind of work through some stuff yourself as an adult.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: But it's also teaching you how to teach children, which is hard because… emotions and all that stuff is kind of abstract. And young children deal with the more concrete stuff that they can touch, feel, taste and smell… right?
Joshua Boswell: Right. Yeah. Right.
Joshua Boswell: Of course.
Mr. Chazz: And so there's… Kind of a resource that it talks about in here that you can get on… If you go to my conscious discipline website, you can get The Feeling Buddies. And The Feeling Buddies… this book will teach you how to use The Feeling Buddies to teach your children how to acknowledge your feelings, breathe through their feelings, and kind of work through their feelings. While you're also going through those same steps as an adult.
Joshua Boswell: Right…
Mr. Chazz: As you're learning how to as an adult. And honestly, it is so… it's been so beautiful to see now, because I work in a classroom right? And I have The Feeling Buddies in the classroom. And they go through this process and I teach them… It's been so beautiful to see children really work through difficult things. And I've used The Feeling Buddies to help children with things that are as seemingly small as not being able to play with the thing that they want to play with at that time...
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: …and they're just really frustrated by it, to helping children deal with death in the family.
Margie Boswell: Mmm.
Mr. Chazz: So it is… I really, really, highly encourage people to get this for learning this skill of self-regulation and teaching your children to do it. And the age I’d recommend it for… I’d really recommend it for about ages 3 to 10.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, yeah.
Margie Boswell: Great.
Mr. Chazz: That’s kind of the ideal age to use this. Another thing I would recommend getting is kind of a general book, and this is… these books are by Dr. Becky Bailey, it’s called Easy To Love, Difficult To Discipline. It's more of a general parenting book that will kind of… a lot of things that I just kind of sprinkled on earlier, and I was talking about the different skills. It goes a little bit deeper into that, and it gives examples. I think that's really helpful too, and has scripts and stuff like that in there. Easy To Love, Difficult To Discipline by Dr. Becky Bailey. And you can actually get those… Up until the end of the year, you get free shipping if you use my promo code, CHAZZ23.
Joshua Boswell: Cool.
Mr. Chazz: Because I'm currently working with them because our messages are so aligned.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And if you have any… You might be like, Okay I'm doing this at home but I want and would really love, the child care, or the teachers, or nanny to learn some of the stuff. And this would be helpful for…
Joshua Boswell: Because they have such an influence. These other supporting people in our lives have a huge impact on our children. Big influence. So how do we enroll those guys in the process?
Mr. Chazz: Well, I think it's probably a lot easier to do with the nanny, rather than a teacher to be honest.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
Mr. Chazz: But, depending on the teacher, I know a lot of teachers like… For instance, I thought I was… You know I was searching and looking.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And I know a lot of teachers… who kind of been in that same place, wanting to find something better than just the fear, control-based strategies, but I will say that, It's definitely a journey that you have to choose to go on.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: No one can force you to go on to it. But this book is super comprehensive. I think this is why you see mine is kind of like, beaten up and it's got papers and stuff in it. I reference it all the time. This is Conscious Discipline Building Resilient Classrooms. And this is really more fit for classrooms, but you can get all those things and free shipping and another thing too… There's books that are aligned that teach the skill of Assertiveness. And one of those books is called Schubert’s Big Voice.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And in the book…
Joshua Boswell: You did a reading of that!
Mr. Chazz: What did you say?
Joshua Boswell: You did a reading of that!
Mr. Chazz: Oh yes! Okay, you have done your research!
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, you did… you're a good reader, by the way.
Mr. Chazz: I've had a lot of practice! Schubert's Big Voice is kind of more for bored… kind of for the 11-12 year olds. And it's pretty much a story about Benny takes Schubert's apple and Schubert has to find a way to get his apple back.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And Mrs. Bookbinder, the teacher, kind of guides Schubert through that process. But what I really love about the Schubert Books and the Sophie Books… The Sophie Books are more for kind of two, three, four year olds and they're kind of cardboard. And it's like the same skills that are teaching, but it's broken down and it's not as long and it's maybe one part of the skill, maybe not the whole thing.
But what I really love about those books is, not only are they stories that teach the children these skills, because children learn very effectively through stories. But it also has little notes in the back for the adults that are aligned with the message in the book to kind of help you continue teaching the lessons.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Margie Boswell: The lessons. Sure, that's good.
Mr. Chazz: Because it's really like… And everything I'm talking about is very adult first. We have to learn. I love what you said before. We have to learn the skill to teach a skill. You can't teach a skill that you don't have. And so we have to learn the skill so that we can be more effective at modeling and teaching the skill.
Joshua Boswell: I love that.
Margie Boswell: That’s great.
Joshua Boswell: So these are fabulous resources, and I’m going to make sure to get access links to all this and share all of this with our audience. So if you're listening here and didn't quite get all the names of the books, we’ll have all that available for you and I love CHAZZ23… sounds like a magic code we can use for shipping and other cool benefits.
Mr. Chazz: Yes, yes.
Joshua Boswell: I love it. Awesome. And I'm just keeping my eye on time… I have 1,000 questions to ask you Mr. Chazz.
Mr. Chazz: Oh yeah...
Joshua Boswell: But we don't have a thousand hours to keep asking the question. So I'm gonna go down to just a couple more here.
So one is… just, if you can give us some quick ideas on these consequences. You know the Natural Consequences, Logical Consequences. I wonder if you have seen an effective way for parents to sit down and really start to think deeply about those, and then begin to practice them. Because really, like you said, I mean, you mentioned… sometimes you're in the moment and it’s like, Oh… think really quick, what's a consequence here? Or, What's a natural consequence? And when there's emotion, and when the heat of the moment’s on, it's hard to do that. And I know that one of the things that helped me is, in advance, setting up some clarity in my head. It made it easier for me to do it in the moment.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: Well when I was… So, we have 11 children and a lot of times I would write a note on the fridge and say, When so and so does this, this is what I need to say. Or this is the consequence I need to… you know so pre-plan it, because I knew that these things were coming up with the children.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So do you have some best practices and ideas for parents that they can really start to pin this down? And maybe some tangible suggestions on what some good consequences could be based on scenarios we see every day?
Mr. Chazz: Yeah. Well so you know… make a mess, you clean it up... I really like to think about practicing. How can we practice this skill.
Joshua Boswell: Oh.. yes.
Mr. Chazz: How can we practice? Where do we mess up and how can we practice this skill? So how could we do a redo? What can we do next time? Sometimes… a lot of times so it's the mess, you clean it up.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Sometimes they're playing with a ball or playing some place where they're not supposed to. Maybe the living room where there’s a bunch of fragile stuff. And you want to play in the playroom, but they keep bringing it out to the living room.
I would literally… One, because visuals are also a really important part of just creating structure.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: I would create a visual line or something. If I can put a piece of tape down, great. Or even if I can just use the piece of furniture, and say like, Look, you cannot cross this line with the ball and if you do, you pick it up, keep it in your hand, walk back to the playroom, and then you can go back to playing with it… Whatever. Whatever I want them to do, literally, go through that motion. I will go through it with them.
Joshua Boswell: I love it.
Mr. Chazz: Or have them go through with them. And so, that way, they can better…. not just,... because a lot of times, we just say things to children and it's in one ear and out the other.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And it literally is, because they don’t have… You know, we say it like they're willfully, just opening their ears for it to go in one ear out the other. But it's really an executive functioning skill that they're lacking.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: What we call is working memory. And it's the ability to really hold information in our head. And so when we just say it, it's harder for them to hold in their head. But when we do it, and go through the motions...
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: It’s much easier for them to repeat. And so I think a lot about that. A lot of times, how can we repair? Make it better? You know… how to repair whatever happened? And again, that’s in terms of the logical consequences. Also acknowledging the power of natural consequences, and recognizing like… Sometimes in natural consequences, we have to wait for the natural consequence to happen.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And when it does… and really like I said, kind of reflecting and kind of talking about it. And one I will be in terms of the specific examples. Because sometimes, even if you do the ball thing, you practice and everything, they still bring the ball out. I might say, Okay, if it comes out again, then we're going to have to put it away.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Right.
Mr. Chazz: And we'll have to try again later. Try again, tomorrow, whatever it is.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Mr. Chazz: And again… not like, I told you so many times! Again, coming through with empathy. Like, you're having a hard time keeping the ball here. Or you're having a hard time keeping your hands to yourself. So we need to move. Either, we need to put the ball away, or we need to go to a different location.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: We need to do something else. Maybe we need to separate for a little bit, maybe put a timer on, come back and try again.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: You know there are so many different things. I can't say that there's… you know, Do this consequence and this consequence… this is the consequence for these exact situations…
Joshua Boswell: Of course.
Mr. Chazz: Because there's so many variables. …
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. That's right.
Mr. Chazz: Even taking into account, like… between your 11 kids, you have, I'm sure probably almost 11 different personalities!
Margie Boswell: That’s right.
Joshua Boswell: Yes we do, as a matter of fact!
Mr. Chazz: Exactly! And some of them may have ADHD, and some of them may be gifted another way, and some might be typical children, and some might be more willing to kind of push. And so, all those things do need to be kind of taken into account. And also, too… we're talking a lot about consequences, but I want to emphasize that consequences... that's really kind of the last resort. When you start going to logical consequences, that's really the last resort. And there's so many things that I go into in my online course… so I have a whole online course and the focus is more on all the other things you can do…
Margie Boswell: Yes. Beforehand.
Mr. Chazz: So you don't have to get to the consequences, right? Before the consequences. Or that you can do ahead of time so they can build those skills. You know, talk about visuals, talk about choices a lot, talk about teaching how to self-regulate, talk about how to teach them how to set boundaries, and teach them how to respect each other's boundaries.
And for you with 11 kids… and especially if there’s others with that many kids, there’s this is other tool that I really love called the time Machine. And it's pretty much like a mat for the children. It's a conflict resolution mat. And when they have conflict resolution with each other, and they want to solve the problem, they want to talk about it, there's a mat that literally walks them through the steps and helps themselves regulate and helps them communicate and solve the problem and give them the language of, you know… I don't like it when you hit me. Please for a turn next time, right?
And then they can switch around and the other person can say what they want. Well, I don't like it when you don't give me a turn, can you please give me a turn? And it just creates an opening for conflict resolution.
And it's all these different things that we can do… Before we even get the consequences.
Joshua Boswell: I love it.
Mr. Chazz: So I just like to acknowledge that. And my online course goes into all those things deeply. So I very much recommend getting that, and that's linked to my social media bio, too.
Margie Boswell: How do we access that course? It sounds amazing.
Mr. Chazz: So it's in my social media bio and… I can give you guys the link to it as well.
Joshua Boswell: Great.
Mr. Chazz: And yeah, I put all of that in there.
Joshua Boswell: So I think… I was gonna ask you about… my other question was gonna be about daily routines.
Mr. Chazz: Oh that’s…
Joshua Boswell: But in my mind, you just answered… and maybe you can go deeper into that, but you partially just answered that. In the sense of we create these scenarios and we do stuff to prevent getting to serious consequences and having to go nuclear option, or be really intense, or whatever. Because they're learning skills along the way. We're preempting a lot of the stuff, using these maps and these tools that you're talking about.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And to me, one of the best things that I've heard you say here is like, Oh, we do redo's. We practice. We talk about stuff. We go through things in advance, I think, Mr. Chazz, that is really powerful. Because so many parents… we're so busy, right? And there's so many things on our plate, and Mom and Dad oftentimes are both working, and they come home from work, then kids come from school…
Mr. Chazz: Yeah. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Everybody's tired, and hungry, and the house is a mess and it's like… But I think slowing down and consciously focusing on, Okay, what are scenarios that are gonna come up? and how can we talk about them? and how do we prevent major issues? right? So talk a little bit more… we have just a few minutes left here.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And then I want to reemphasize your program, because it sounds mind-blowingly awesome. So… talk a little bit about daily routines that are beneficial for families. Because I think you touched on a number of things.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah. Routines are very very helpful. And before I go to routines, I want to say that with 11 kids, I'm sure you recognize how hard and difficult it can be to slow down, right?
Joshua Boswell: Oh… yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And… something I'm gonna say, something maybe like a light at the end of the tunnel, and some maybe motivation for you too, maybe some motivation to slow down and teach those skills rather than just going to control, control, and fear is that, when you teach those skills to one, they have now the opportunity to teach it to another. And so it's like everyone teaching each other skills.
Joshua Boswell: Uh-huh.
Mr. Chazz: And some people will be and be strong in one thing, and some will be strong in another thing… And not only are you modeling and teaching the skills as the adults, but also your children start to do it for each other. Now they learn how to be empathetic with each other when someone is struggling.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Now they learn how to listen, or they learn how to set boundaries, or teach someone to set boundaries because they've seen you do it so many times over and over and over again and go through that process so many times. So that is the benefit of having multiple children, doing this with multiple children, that they get to teach each other.
Joshua Boswell: I love it.
Mr. Chazz: And even if you don't have multiple children, maybe only have one child. I always think it's amazing to think about how they take these skills and they use them with their friends. Especially as you think about as they get older, and they have other people who are maybe… they have an upbringing, that's more like yours, Joshua, and less like Margie's… and they have the opportunity to maybe be that healthy relationship, that empathetic ear, that non dismissive voice. To be like, Hey, I'm here for you. I got you. Maybe even give some helpful advice. And I think that's so powerful.
Margie Boswell: That's awesome.
Mr. Chazz: I think that's like… how we change the world.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Mr. Chazz: I think that's the whole idea that we are all teaching each other.
Okay now for the routines. The routines are very very helpful. Just… we all thrive when we know what to expect. I mean, think about how the pandemic threw so many off of our routine.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: A lot of us were really not at our best at that time. But when we know what to expect, we all do better, but especially children. So that's a really important thing. And visual routines. And I actually have a visual schedule, because visuals are so powerful.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: And I work with someone who… I work with Mighty And Bright. And we have like a Mr. Chazz version of a visual schedule, but she's got her own scheduling stuff. So I encourage you to kind of look at that stuff, too. If you don't have the time or bandwidth to kind of make your own visual routines, we've kind of done it for you. But if you can, just visuals are so helpful for children just in general.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Just think about that. Visuals are very helpful way to communicate ideas. And that's also why I very much encourage people to use visual timers. Because time is one of those kinds of abstract things. But if you have a visual timer… And I like the one that’s a circle that communicates time with color. They may not know what five minutes is or ten minutes is because we say “five minutes” for everything.
Joshua Boswell: Right!
Mr. Chazz: But what they do know is… there’s a little bit of red, a little bit of red, and then, Ding!!! All right, my time is up, that helps some process the time,…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Mr. Chazz: Even for things like screen time, a visual timer can be more helpful than to say, You have five minutes. Right? And so yeah.
Joshua Boswell: That's amazing. So is your version of those… that routine chart, is that inside your course? Or…
Mr. Chazz: No, so that's inside the link. In my bio. I have the visual schedule.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, okay. Good. Let's make sure we get hold of that.
Margie Boswell: Yeah, so great. I really want to see it. I'm excited.
Mr. Chazz: Yeah. Most of the resources that I've mentioned here are linked in my bio, currently right now.
Joshua Boswell: Linked in the bio. Perfect.
Margie Boswell: Okay. Sweet.
Joshua Boswell: Thank you. Okay Margie.. Do you have any…?
Margie Boswell: This has been great. We have so appreciated you joining us and sharing all these things with us that are gonna help us, our family and thousands of others. So, thank you.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Is there something I should have asked you that you're like, Ah… I wish Joshua would ask me this so I could talk about it…? Is there any one last thing that you want to highlight or discuss before we kind of wrap up here?
Mr. Chazz: I'm just gonna repeat what I said earlier because I think it's so important. Avoid being being a perfectionist. Be an improvenist.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Mr. Chazz: The goal is not to be perfect every day. It's not a realistic goal to try to be perfect, try to be perfect. You're gonna make mistakes. Mistakes are an essential part of the learning process.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Mr. Chazz: They are important. That's kind of a part of consequences that mistakes are an essential part of the learning process. You have to have mistakes. Your children have to have mistakes. That is how they're learning. So, see it that way. See it with your children, see it with yourself and avoid being a perfectionist, be an improvenist. The goal isn’t to be perfect every day. The goal is to improve a little every day.
Joshua Boswell: I love it. I wish I was sitting in the living room with you and could give you a big hug. I want to reach out and give a big hug to all of our listeners.
Mr. Chazz: Here, we'll do an air hug.
Joshua Boswell: It's so cool. This has been amazing. Thank you so very much.
Margie Boswell: Thank you.
Joshua Boswell: And, you know… we're just cheering you on, you're doing great work in the world and I can promise you that your mission of moving the need a little closer to world peace is being fulfilled. Because you know… if nothing else, the Boswell family is feeling’ just a lot happier now.
Mr. Chazz: Aww…
Joshua Boswell: So thank you so much. All right.
Mr. Chazz: Well thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thanks for having me on. You guys have a great day. Bye.
Margie Boswell: Thanks, you too. Bye.
Joshua Boswell: Bye.