Podcast Transcript
Attendees:
Joshua Boswell, Margie Boswell, Lori Wildenberg
Transcript:
Joshua Boswell: Hello friends, welcome. We're so excited to have you here today for the Happy Family Club Podcast. And the incredible opportunity to visit with our new good friend Lori. And I think you're gonna introduce Lori for us?Â
Margie Boswell: Sure! My pleasure. We're so grateful you're here, Lori. This is Lori Wildenberg and she is passionate, just like us, about helping families and helping them build connections that will last their whole life. So it's awesome to have you here. Thank you for taking the time to join with us today. Lori is a licensed parent family educator and coach. And she's also obviously an award winning author. Is it six books now?
Lori Wildenberg: Yes, six.
Joshua Boswell: Amazing.Â
Margie Boswell: Yeah, so amazing. What a great thing to give the world.Â
Joshua Boswell: I've written one. I thought that was gonna kill me. You've got six. That's amazing.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Each one kills me a little bit.
Joshua Boswell: t's like a whole piece of your heart like… what’s that old expression about good writing? It's just like, open up a vein and just bleed onto the paper. So… Sorry. Didn’t mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.Â
Margie Boswell: Another thing about Lori, she's the co-founder of 1st Corinthians 13 Parenting, which is great. Also a national speaker. She co-hosts a podcast, Moments With Lori and Leanne. And she leads the mentor mom over at the moms together Facebook Community page. Which that blesses a lot of people's lives, I'm sure.
Joshua Boswell: And I was excited to note that you've written a bazillion… I don't even know how many articles for Focus On The Family and Mom Life, etc. You're so prolific with what you're writing and sharing with the world. It's just awesome Lori. Thank you.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Aww…Â
Joshua Boswell: What was the thing that I read about you? Your favorite day is being outside with the family and spending time with nature and with God or something like that. So I love it. Very cool.Â
Margie Boswell: And four children, right?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yes! And our family’s growing because we have… I call them “in-loves.” We have three in-laws.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah!Â
Lori Wildenberg: We also have now four little grands. Our oldest grandchild is five…
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Lori Wildenberg: And the youngest one just turned one. So our family’s growing. It's so awesome. I love it. Love it, love it, love it. So… Thanks so much, Margie and Joshua for having me. I'm just so excited. So blessed. It's such an honor to here with you.Â
Joshua Boswell: We feel likewise.Â
Margie Boswell: Same. Yep.Â
Joshua Boswell: So I thought we could start off just getting a little bit about your background. I mean mom of four children, you've got grandchildren now. But you're just all over in so many good ways. How did you get to being a coach and supporting families so much and digging into this? Where…? Did you just wake up one morning? “I think I'm gonna be a world renowned parenting and family expert!” Like… how did this start?Â
Lori Wildenberg: That is very funny. Yeah, so I had always wanted to be a mama.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And I always wanted to be a teacher. Always. Just always knew that that was my path. And so I ended up going to school for teaching and got an elementary education degree. Actually I'm certified K through sixth.Â
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Lori Wildenberg: Then after my husband and I got married, I really wanted the mom thing to kick in too, but it didn't right away.Â
Joshua Boswell: mmm
Lori Wildenberg: And that was really, really tough because I went through a season of infertility.Â
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Lori Wildenberg: And Tom and I had always had… he was my college sweetheart.Â
Joshua Boswell: Nice.Â
Lori Wildenberg: But we had always had in our minds that we would have four kids and we would adopt our fourth. We would have three and then adopt our fourth. Well God had a different plan. He gave us four children, but He flipped it. So we adopted our oldest. We went down to Columbia and adopted Courtney. She’s our oldest. She was three months old when we got her.Â
Joshua Boswell: Wow.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And then we had three more the old fashioned way. So yeah, so that's our family as far as how the mom thing and the teaching thing all started to come to fruition. And then we were living in Minnesota at the time and I was working. Once we had our first two kids, Courtney and Jake, we found out we were going to be moving from Minnesota to San Diego.
Joshua Boswell: Hmm.
Lori Wildenberg: And when we moved there I had two more kiddos, and my oldest child she has… And I know that you guys just are either… I think you just had someone who was talking about special needs coming up on your show?Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, so she had some special needs and I needed to take some parenting classes. And when we left Minnesota, I was teaching part-time at the time because we had two kiddos.
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, so when we moved I was home full time and I really needed to be and wanted to be. But I also needed some equipping.Â
Joshua Boswell: yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Because my daughter was experiencing some difficulties that I really felt ill equipped to deal with.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And I have to say, this is kind of bad, but I had a lot of Pride because I had a teaching degree. So I thought I knew what I was doing. I didn't know what I was doing. And I needed a lot of help. So I started taking some parenting classes, and I thought someday I would love to be able to combine my teaching with my love of being a mama and also weaving my faith into that. And then we moved back to Minnesota from San Diego and I approached my pastor, and told him that what I'd love to do was to teach a Christian parenting class. I had four little kids and I had four kids that were very close together in age. At one point we had four kids five and under.Â
Joshua Boswell: Awesome. We know that story.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Right, yes, and there you go. So you know life is busy and kids get sick and you really don't have a lot of extra time.
Joshua Boswell: Nope.
Lori Wildenberg: And so what I wanted to do, you guys… and I think I was sharing with you earlier, Joshua, that I kind of like to streamline my jobs a little. So I was going to streamline my job. And pop in a video tape and then facilitate a conversation. A videotape, of course, that's what was going on at the time, were these videotapes.Â
Joshua Boswell: Sure.
Lori Wildenberg: But that was going to be my plan. Discovered along the way that the curriculum I wanted to use really didn't line up with my philosophy.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Margie Boswell: Mm-hmm.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And so I was thinking, oh gosh Lord. What am I gonna do now? And He flooded me with 12 ideas. And I'm not that quick on my feet, right? That is a total God thing. So He gave me 12 ideas. He told me how to market the class. And so I went home, I wrote all the ideas that the Lord generated down, and that ended up being my first book which I co-authored with one of the gals who actually happened to be one of my small group leaders for that class. I'd never thought that I would be a writer.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: That was not… I came in through the back door because I was presenting this class. And then Becky, who was my co-author… And me not realizing I was going to be doing this, she came up to me after one of the classes and she said, This material really needs to be in a book. And people had said that to me before and I told them, I'm a very busy mom. You need to take notes.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right! You should write it down. I'll say it. Right.
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah. You do that.Â
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And anyway, Becky said the same thing, that she thought this should be in a book and that we should write it together. And we were getting ready to move here to Colorado and I was like… I said, okay. And I thought who the heck said okay? That's crazy. But that's how our first book… and then she and I wrote two more after that. And then I wrote the next three following that.Â
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Lori Wildenberg: But our first book was Empowered Parents Putting Faith First and that started the start of the parent coaching. It started the… It just was a waterfall effect.Â
Joshua Boswell: Sure, right.
Lori Wildenberg: And a lot of writers usually write first and… then they're a speaker. I did it the opposite.
Joshua Boswell: The opposite way. Love it. Yeah, so I have a question for you and maybe there's no answer for it. But it comes into my mind. So now, I don't know how many years ago you published that, but it's probably been a couple years.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, long time.
Joshua Boswell: So now looking back, I wonder if you have a sense of why you? In other words, God reached out to you and gave you these 12 ideas, gave you these insights on what to do, put Becky into your life, obviously to help co-author this and write it. And I just wonder what was it about you, looking back, that has had such a profound impact on parents that God wanted to use you in that respect?
Lori Wildenberg: Boy, that was my question, too.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right!Â
Margie Boswell: Okay, Lord..?
Lori Wildenberg: What the heck are you thinking God? And I do have the enemy coming after me so often, whispering into my ear, You have no business doing this. Because I do not have a perfect family. And maybe that's why.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Because I don't. And we have had our struggles and I would… You know, helping other families work through that messy life is so important. And for us to rely upon one another and rely upon the Lord God has taught me a lot. And of course a lot of the time we learn stuff in the hard things, right?Â
Joshua Boswell: That's right.
Lori Wildenberg: So yeah. That was a good question: Why you? When I was teaching one of my classes I had a dad… I hate introducing myself. It's always kind of awkward.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: So I decided I was going to skip that.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And I would just kind of get right into the class. And he raised his hand and he said, So who are you to teach this class? Right?Â
Joshua Boswell: Oh no! And you're like, well that's what I'm wondering, too.
Lori Wildenberg: I know! And people do want to hear about your credentials like the licensed parent and family educator and all of that, but I can say that the biggest thing is the life experiences that the Lord gives us. And maybe even some of those bigger challenges along the way.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Those are the things, if we are willing to be corrected and willing to learn and willing to share and be okay with sharing some of those hard things... which is tough, right?Â
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: I mean Joshua, as you know, when you write a book, you…. as you said, you bleed it out. And the reason you do is because you're sharing your heart and your hard stuff and sometimes very personal things. And that is not easy. Two of my books in particular Messy Journey, How Grace and Truth Offer The Prodigal A Way Home and then Messy Hope, Help Your Child Overcome Anxiety Depression Or Suicidal Ideation. We've had things, and it's hard to share that. But God heals in that moment. And He also helps.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: He helps the person who is sharing, and He helps the person who's receiving it. So it's a blessing. It really is.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, it really is. And I love… two things that I love about your response, and thanks for answering that. But I love number one the way that you going through this process has really blessed you and Tom and your family. I mean, it seems to me that you were just starting off with your daughter who had some special needs. It was like, gosh, I need to be vulnerable and figure this out. And so it blessed your family, and then you turned around and blessed so many other people's families. And I think that your willingness to do that, in a way it's a piece of the Great Commission. It's like, go out and share with people and love on them and help them come closer to God and help them have stronger families. And you're doing that, Lori. And it's a really beautiful thing. So I love that answer.Â
But I also want to say this to the parents listening: A lot of times you and I are not called to write the books and stand on the stages and to be the teacher, etc. But all of us have a sphere of influence, starting with our children and our spouses and those loved ones around us. And Lori's example here guys… it's really the pattern to follow. It's like, be vulnerable, find out what the Lord wants you to do, do it. Bless yourself, bless your family, and then help other people. Because that's really how we do it. And that might not mean a book for you. But that is really a pattern to having strong, powerful families and it's gonna get messy sometimes, like Lori said.Â
Margie Boswell: Yes!Â
Joshua Boswell: Not sometimes… it'll always get messy. That's a part of life. It's gonna get messy. So…Â
Lori Wildenberg: True enough.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, thank you for sharing that with us. And thanks for sharing your background. So I wonder… I mean, this kind of segues right into what we want to focus on, and that is… We of course love finding out your insights on what makes a happy family. Like if you could do your one thing or focus on just one area, Lori, what would that be in terms of creating real family joy and connections? What would your answer to that be?
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, I think that the biggest thing that we can do is to raise our kids in an interdependent home.Â
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Lori Wildenberg: As you know, people who live in this Western World, right? And we've got independence just like surging through our veins, right? We're all about that our kids need to be independent. Well perhaps as a country, as a citizen, yeah. But within the family, God has a set up to be interdependent. And we can see that way back in the garden where here Adam was, and he needed to get to the place after he named all the animals. He needed to realize he needed a helper. He needed a partner. He needed someone to do life with.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And we're created to do life together and to also be dependent on the Lord. And when we focus on independence… I mean if you play that out, think of how sad that is.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: If I raise my kiddos to be independent. Here we are, now they are all adults. What would that mean? It would mean they would be independent of us.Â
Margie Boswell: Mm-hmm.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And I think my momma's heart wants a relationship with my kids that lasts a lifetime right? And now I've got four little grandkids. You can bet I want to be in their lives.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And so yeah. So interdependence I think is actually the key. And we've co-mingled the words independence and responsible or responsibility.Â
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm
Lori Wildenberg: And interdependence is not codependence.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right. It’s not irresponsible.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah,…exactly. It's not taking away responsibility. Interdependence is encouraging responsibility. We are responsible for our actions and for our words, for our deeds. We're responsible for those things. I came across this idea… Would you be okay if I shared this idea?
Joshua Boswell: Yes!Â
Lori Wildenberg: I think you might call it the secret sauce.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, give us… I'm a marketer. Give me the secret sauce. I love it.
Lori Wildenberg: Okay, Here's the secret sauce. So when my four kids were little, and like I told you, they were all five years of age and under. So everybody was super close together in age. Oh my gosh, it was not a meal until someone spilled. It drove me crazy, right? I mean you guys know this.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, yes.
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, even if you have a sippy cup, it didn't matter. Something got knocked over all the time. And I could feel the tension in my jaw. And I would clench my teeth and I think, Something's got to change. And now the idea that I ended up coming up with, I would love to say was an altruistic, oh, I'm gonna do this for the Lord and for the benefit of the children. No, it was my own survival to tell you the truth. And so I started saying, That's okay. Everybody spills. I'll help you clean it up.Â
Joshua Boswell: Oh yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And so I'll walk through that a little bit. So when I would say, That's okay, let me tell you, something changed in me.Â
Joshua Boswell: Hmm.Â
Lori Wildenberg: All of a sudden I wasn't clenching my teeth anymore. Just by saying, That's okay. And what occurred in my kids is my kids knew, Okay, mom's not going to go nuts here.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Mom's not going crazy. Okay, that took… now I'm not talking about the Rascal that spills it on purpose. Okay.Â
Joshua Boswell: No, no. Yeah. We'll talk about that later.Â
Lori Wildenberg: That's a whole different conversation.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, this is the accident. Yeah, right.
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, it's the ones that have no idea of their body space because they're growing and they're knocking things over all the time.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: That kid. And so I would say, that's okay. And it changed something in me and it made me more approachable to my child. It took the whole emotional worry out of the moment. The stress was gone and then I'd say, That's okay, and then I'd say, Everybody spills.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Everybody makes mistakes. It took the shame out of the spill.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Lori Wildenberg: There's no worry in that, right? Everybody spills. And then I could say, now go grab a rag and clean it up. And that would be a natural consequence, wouldn't it? And that's not a bad thing at all.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And sometimes that's something that you have to do just because maybe you're busy in another room or you're feeding a baby. Sometimes you do have to do that. That's all right. But if more often than not you can say, I will help you clean it up. The message that gives our kids is I am coming alongside of you in the spills of life. I will be here for you. I wanted my kids and I wanted myself and my husband to have a family where there was Grace that permeated the home.Â
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And a place where it's okay to make mistakes, a place where it's okay to be a little bit weird. A place where it's all okay. And we can depend on each other and not feel shame for a mistake. But to have, still have the responsibility of owning it and cleaning it up. But knowing that someone else was going to come alongside of us.
Margie Boswell: Hmm.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And to me, that is critical. And that really builds a relationship in the home where a family is rejoicing together, doing the happy together, right? And mourning together. And even if you're not under the same roof, that can still happen. Because I still have my kids call up and tell me about something they're rejoicing about. I love that! I love that, right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, yes.
Lori Wildenberg: Â And they also will call if things aren't going so great and they just might need an ear.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And I think that interdependence, that is totally the way that we are wired.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: So that's why I believe it speaks to our families. And we need to be so careful because in this culture there's so much talk about being independent. And I think that’s really… as that unfolds, we're not gonna like what that looks like.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah! No we're not. Especially when you look at the love and the connection between families. And I think that there's too much disconnect for families right now. And in fact this morning during our scripture study and devotional we had this conversation where we were looking at a lot of the challenges that are happening in the world. We had a son who lived for a couple years as a missionary in Chicago and was up doing missionary work up there. And he was in the inner city and he saw just horrific stuff. and he said this morning to us, he said, Dad and Mom, I think that most of the problems that I saw stand from disconnected families.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Mm-hmm.Â
Joshua Boswell: And I was like, Wow, that is profound insight.Â
Margie Boswell: He said 80% of the problems in Chicago would go away if the family was cohesive.
Joshua Boswell: Right. Right. And I think it comes to this interdependent thing that you're talking about. And really, Lori, isn't that the way God deals with us?
Lori Wildenberg: Yes, He does.
Joshua Boswell: Right?
Lori Wildenberg: I mean throughout scripture, think of it. He wants to tell us all the time. I am with you.Â
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.Â
Lori Wildenberg: We hear that constantly. We see him walking with Adam and Eve in the garden. He is with us. It permeate scripture. Old and New Testament.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yes, yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: We had a situation where my youngest daughter… all of us have been in ski accidents, okay?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: So all of us have had ski accidents, but she had a very, very serious injury when she was snowboarding and she ruptured her spleen.Â
Joshua Boswell: Oh…Â
Lori Wildenberg: And if you know anything about that, that is life and death.Â
Joshua Boswell: That's bad. Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Well I was in the ambulance as we flew down the mountain to this… it's a big story but I'm just gonna give you a little slice of this, how God wants us to know this.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: But when we were racing down the mountain to get to the Trauma 1 Center down in Denver for them to check her out and to do the surgery, as they were pulling her out of the ambulance... The whole trauma team was waiting for us. Now, I'll never complain ever again about waiting in an emergency room because they will take the people that are life and death, right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: So they were pulling her out, they're waiting for us, and they're even starting to work on her as they were moving her to go into the hospital.
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm
Lori Wildenberg: And I said, Lord, do I say? What do I say to Kendra? What if…? It was clear to me that this could be the last time I spoke to her.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And I said God, what do I say? And He says, Tell her I'm with her.Â
Joshua Boswell: Oh…Â
Lori Wildenberg: And then I said, Kendra, God is with you. They whisked her away and I thought, What the heck, God? That's what I say? Why didn't I tell her I loved her?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And clear as a bell He said, she knows that. She needs to know I'm with her.Â
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Lori Wildenberg: Isaiah 41:10, Do not be afraid, I am with you.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: It's a beautiful verse. And I had asked Kendra later when she made it through the surgery… And it was quite amazing. And I asked her later if she had heard me, because she was unconscious when I said this to her.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And she goes, oh yeah, Mom, you told me that God was with me. And we were at Saint Anthony's hospital. And at that hospital they would read scripture over the loudspeaker and almost as if on cue, just after she told me this you guys, they read Isaiah 41:10. Can you believe that? I mean God, He wants us to know He's with us.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And he wants to remind us that He's been with us. And He wants it to be obvious. We just have to open our eyes, and he is with us.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And that's one critical thing that we want our kids to know as we're looking at interdependency. We are there for one another and we are to be dependent on the Lord.Â
Joshua Boswell: YeahÂ
Lori Wildenberg: He is with us and He wants to be with us and He wants us to know that.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.Â
Margie Boswell: And He's there to help us clean up our messes. Right?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yes! Yes, it's true.
Margie Boswell: Right there with us. Yep.Â
Joshua Boswell: Wow, He's helped me clean up a lot of messes. I'm really good at making messes, Lori. Just so you know. Margie is not as good at it. I think she needs to work on that a little bit.
Margie Boswell: No, no, no.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Well then she can say, Well that's okay, Joshua. Everyone spills. I'll help you clean it up.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly! She does. So I've got a question for you. A lot of people don't have parents like you. They didn't grow up in a household of faith or a household of interdependence. But they want… I see a longing for parents to have this. They just don't know where to start. And so I'm wondering what your advice is for someone who's really coming at this from a totally… 8I don't want to say dysfunctional, because we're all come from dysfunctional spaces, right?Â
Margie Boswell: We’re all dysfunctional, yep.Â
Joshua Boswell: But definitely not from the sphere of what we're talking about, of an understanding of interdependence, an understanding of the Lord. Like, where do they start, Lori? And maybe their children are already a little bit older. How do they step into this and move ahead right now? What's your thoughts on that for these people?
Lori Wildenberg: What I think it's pretty basic. I think it's connection.
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm.
Lori Wildenberg: And even if you have adult children or grandchildren who do not live near you, you can still have connection.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And I'm going to say it's on the parent. It’s on the grandparent. And if you want a change to be made, it's up to you.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And to be the one who reaches out, even in small ways. Hey, I was at the grocery store today and I saw Captain Crunch and it reminded me of you. You know, something small.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: When I work with grandparents, I tell them if you don't know how to text, you start learning.Â
Joshua Boswell: Get on it.
Lori Wildenberg: Because that is going to be your connection to not just your adult children, but also to your grandchildren.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And that was a blessing with covid because a lot of people who weren't comfortable with some of the technology ended up getting way more comfortable because of that.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And there was a blessing in that. And people realized connection’s important. So starting with connection. And connection naturally leads to interdependence. So, I think it's kind of simple, but you need to be intentional, you need to be deliberate. Because it's not going to happen unless you are intentional and deliberate. But it is kind of simple.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. I love that. So powerful.Â
Margie Boswell: So good.Â
Joshua Boswell: And a quick follow up question on that… and you mentioned this a little bit, like interdependence is not dependence. It's not enabling. I can't remember if you used that word or not
Lori Wildenberg: Right, codependence, but enabling is a perfect word.Â
Joshua Boswell: And so how…? Suggestions on how to get… I guess how to avoid that codependence and that kind of dysfunctional, unhealthy side of that? Because I think that we do also, I mean, Margie and I have seen parents that just… their kids are just like yeah, you do everything, mom and dad. We're just gonna sit here. So your thoughts on how to kind of strike that balance so that people don't go like, Darth Vader over the dark side.Â
Lori Wildenberg: That is the best question, because it is very easy to slide over into that enabling place, right?Â
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm
Lori Wildenberg: So here's the question: Am I helping or am I enabling? Okay?Â
Joshua Boswell: Love it.
Lori Wildenberg: And that helps you determine where you're at. So am I helping? Am I helping the person up and out? Or am I encouraging that person to stay put? And me continuing to add into that particular situation where they're staying put?Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: So can I help them up and out? Okay? Or are they going to be static? Are they going to stay there?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Â And if you realize that they're staying there, you're no longer helping but you are enabling and you are encouraging that codependence.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: So that's such a great question. And yeah. So you have to really be really aware. Because the lines are a little blurry.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. And I think too… A thought came to my mind as you were talking. And that is this Godly character of being selfless versus being selfish. C.S. Lewis in The Great Divorce has this amazing scene, if you've read that book there's an amazing scene where this mother wants to see her child. But she doesn't want to see that he's already moved on to the High Country as C.S. Lewis says in that scene. She doesn't want to see him for his sake or for his benefit. It's all for her, right? It’s her gratification, her bragging about her kid. His name is Michael if I remember right? He's like, I want to see Michael. He's mine. I get to see him. I want to have him. And so it's like the whole conversation and the thought process is all about her versus serving and helping both of them grow. Right? And we've seen this in parents. So as an example, sometimes we'll see and talk to parents who they missed out on being the college football star, as an example.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Mm-hmm.Â
Joshua Boswell: And so their kid is going to become a college football star, whether he likes it or not. Because they're gonna relive that dream through them, right? It's all about the parent, not about the growth of not only the child but both of their growth. Because selfishness really just bogs everybody down, and it's not the Lord's way of helping us to move forward. So I really love that you're talking about this. It's like, well are we helping them move forward? Are we all just stagnating or regressing, right? So powerful, Lori, it's really cool.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, a lot of parents do, as you say, want to live vicariously through their kiddos.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And it's good to have a check on that.Â
Joshua Boswell: And by the way, I wasn't saying that to vilify any parent. I think most parents are just doing the best they can, like…
Lori Wildenberg: Of course.
Joshua Boswell: I grew up in a crazy world and it's amazing how much baggage I keep having to shed. It's like, oh yeah… and watching Margie and the way she lives, it's like… Okay, I can be a little more like Christ in that area. And shedding some more baggage and growing, so I don't fall to anybody for not getting it right because, you know, it's alright. We're gonna help you clean it up.
Lori Wildenberg: That's right, and we will make mistakes along the way.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: I can think of a lot of them. But right now I'm thinking of one in particular. My son, when he was in… I think it was maybe Seventh grade. He didn't want to play football anymore, but we'd already signed him up and it was already into this. And we made the mistake of thinking, well it's because he's nervous before that first contact practice.Â
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm
Lori Wildenberg: But it continued. And then we're thinking, well, he made a commitment. He needs to fulfill this.Â
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: He really didn't make the commitment. We kind of made it for him. But we pushed him… it was so horrible. And I was practically dragging him to practice and he did actually finish off the season. It was miserable. And later I realized, We weren't listening.Â
Margie Boswell: Mm-hmm.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And so we had the best intentions, like Oh… we're gonna teach him to follow through. Well, he wasn't really on board from the beginningÂ
Joshua Boswell: Right!Â
Lori Wildenberg: He wanted to play hockey and he was already signed up for football.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, right.
Lori Wildenberg: So anyway, he ended up going on to play hockey and ended up even playing hockey in college.Â
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Lori Wildenberg: So he did end up working out. But he was done with football. And just listening and realizing, Okay, maybe there's more to this than I was thinking. Kind of the common wisdom would be, well, he made a commitment, he needs to see this through. But really, he didn't need to see it through and we probably should have just pulled him.
Joshua Boswell: Just pulled him. Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And we had another situation where… and this is about connection, where the same son, he said to me, he was probably around first grade. And he goes mom, you wouldn't love me anymore if I went to jail, would you? And okay… a smart mom would have investigated that question a little further, like what's going on here?Â
Joshua Boswell: Okay, what'd you do, right?
Lori Wildenberg: What are you up to? But I was so shocked by that question. Because I was so into natural consequences that I was not as much about Grace and about training and about letting my kids know because I just thought they knew that I love them unconditionally.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: That was a huge turning point in our lives. That we need to regularly, often, consistently speak our love, no matter what's going on.Â
Margie Boswell: Mm-hmm.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And so… you make a lot of mistakes, but you learn, right?
Margie Boswell: That’s right.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. And that love gives your children such a place of strength and stability, right?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: And look, we're all human we're gonna make mistakes, and that allows them to make those mistakes with Grace. There's an interesting thing you probably know but in Psychology a lot of times the thing that you resist, strengthens. You build walls with things you put energy to. One of our good friends used to say: If you water weeds, they grow. And if you fertilize them, they grow even faster, right?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And sometimes we do that with resistance. So I think sometimes children who don't have that love and acceptance, they feel that resistance, it reinforces the negative behavior and pushes them deeper down into the hole. They don't have a safe place to go.
Lori Wildenberg: 100%
Joshua Boswell: Now, I have a… and we're getting close to the time here. So I got like two million questions for you, but we probably got time for one more. I love taking notes. And so I've got a bunch of stuff here. But my question is you know, we talked about connection. And how connection creates interdependence. And we're talking about families and there’s really… our first family is this relationship between us and God. And I've been so impressed, Lori, at the way you've talked about your relationship with God. The accident with your daughter, in getting out of ambulance and saying, God what do I say to her? And receiving an answer and being able to recognize that and having that confidence, like…
Margie Boswell: And act on it immediately. Yeah.Â
Joshua Boswell: And act on it, yeah. I think a lot of times people get impressions or ideas or thoughts or feelings. And then they start debating: Well was that me? Was that God? Was that indigestion? Like what happened there? And so I've been really impressed with the level at which you connect with the Lord and communicate there. And I wonder if you have some insights on how we can improve on that? Because I'm not gonna say you're perfect, but you seem to be so comfortable with it, right?Â
Joshua Boswell: And I think that's a great way for… that's a huge resource for parents, to have connection with God. So your thoughts on that?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, just like we said earlier. To really solidify your relationship with somebody you need to spend time together. Right?Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And the way that… How I can recognize the Lord's voice. And sometimes I'm confused, is it my voice or is it God's right?Â
Joshua Boswell: Sure.Â
Lori Wildenberg: I mean but the best way to know His voice is to know His word. And when you His word and you are in communion with Him by studying His word and then by praying and taking time to be quiet…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: I think those are really important things. That spending time together, just as with a human relationship, you know?Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Our spiritual relationship with the Lord, we need to spend time together. Because the enemy can also speak to us.Â
Joshua Boswell: Sure.
Lori Wildenberg: And we want to make sure that we listen. Like I had mentioned to you before, the enemy will whisper in my ear. Well, you have no business doing this, you know?Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And so we need to know what is of God and what lines up with His word. And if what we are hearing lines up with his word, it's probably accurate.
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: But if we're hearing a voice that's saying something that doesn't line up with His word, we can bet that that's the enemy. When you're open to spiritual things, you're also open to things that are maybe not of the Lord. So you have to be very careful. That's what I would say.
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: So you've got to know God's voice so you know what to pay attention to. And I have to say, sometimes the way the Lord's worked with me, especially during the time when my oldest went through a season of being a prodigal, was I wanted to speak truth all the time.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yep.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And I think God wanted me to demonstrate a little more grace and be a little less talkative. And so that He could speak, right? And if you're natural inclination… so let's say some of your listeners, let's say somebody does have a prodigal. If your natural inclination is to speak truth, perhaps the Lord's moving you to demonstrate a little more grace and to wait to see if God wants you to speak truth. Because I believe He will let you know.Â
Margie Boswell: Hmm.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: So I think almost do the opposite of your natural inclination.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Because again, you have to be very prayerful about things. And know God's word because once the Lord's word, then you know, as you go through life, how you can demonstrate a hundred percent truth and a hundred percent grace as you walk this path of a messy life.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Margie Boswell: Well and that's what one of your books is about, right? About the prodigal?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yes.Â
Margie Boswell: Which book is that? The messy life?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Message Journey. Yep. How Grace And Truth Offer The Prodigal A Way Home.Â
Margie Boswell: Love that.Â
Joshua Boswell: And I think that there’s a… I would add on to that, or just confirm, I think sometimes people don't get the idea square in their head that God loves them and wants to talk to them. He is our loving Heavenly Father. He wants to be there with us. He wants to show up and have us be independent or interdependent with Him, right?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: And once you come to that conclusion, that truth, then I don't know… for me at least, there was a time in my life where it was like I was always questioning. Is this me? Is this the Lord? What do I do? I don't know. Is this the adversary, the enemy, what do we do here?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Mm-hmm
Joshua Boswell: And when I finally was like, God's my Father. He loves me like I love my kids. He wants to talk to me. It just opened me up to be like, OH yeah. I just had so much more confidence listening and following. I also… you know, the whole idea about fruit on the tree. I went through a season, I’m still kind of in there, but listening to things, working hard on them, applying them, then like how did that turn out? Was the family happier? Do I have a better relationship with my kids? Was there love, joy, happiness, peace? Were the fruits of that relationship coming to bear, or was I more frustrated, was everybody angry, did I get the silent treatment? Not that any of that's ever happened, Lori.
Lori Wildenberg: No, of course not.
Joshua Boswell: Of course not. But you know, seeing that. And I think about the struggles and the challenges that we have. And oftentimes as parents, the thing that we need is somebody like you, Lori, to give us wisdom and insights. And then sometimes we have challenges with our prodigal children that are so unique and so difficult that we really need just this direct insight from God. We need His wisdom. And since he knows everything and he's all powerful, it's not a bad source to go to, right?
Lori Wildenberg: Right, right. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Not bad. You said one other thing that kind of caught my attention, and that was being able to really be quiet and listen. And again, everyone's got different styles. I do like to write. And years ago I invested in this iPad right here. And for a lot of reasons, but the number one reason was I decided to start a really systematic prayer journal. And so most of my prayers are on my knees writing thoughts and impressions and asking questions. So it's a very tactical experience. I'm kind of a tactical learner. But I really appreciate you answering that because I think it is so needed. And your idea of spending time with Him, knowing His word, listening and then acting on that is just absolutely gold. That's worth the entire interview right there.
Lori Wildenberg: Well and Joshua, you mentioned something that I think is really important to have wise counsel.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: To know who the people that God has put in your lives who are the ones that are pretty solid.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Who can you go to that knows the Lord and Is someone who can maintain a confidence. Who is a safe person?Â
Joshua Boswell: Right.Â
Lori Wildenberg: And I think that that's an important part of the equation as well. And I'm glad that you mentioned that. Because we need each other! Again, that interdependence.
Joshua Boswell: Interdependence. Exactly. And I'll bet you see a lot of that, because you… I don't know how much coaching you do, but I do know you have done a bunch and you do coaching. But I'll bet that comes up a lot with your parenting… I don't know if you call them clients or whatever, but the parents you work with, right?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: And you provide that safe space for them, right that good…
Lori Wildenberg: I hope to. I want to. I believe that I do.
Joshua Boswell: That's the objective, right?! If you don't I would be shocked. That would really rock my world. I don't know. Cool, well this has been amazing.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Thank you.Â
Joshua Boswell: I wonder if there's any last bit of advice you can share with us? Something that maybe we should have asked you but we didn't? Or an insight or some wisdom you'd like to share with us as we kind of wrap up here.
Lori Wildenberg: I think I'd like to re-emphasize: That's okay. Everybody spills. I'll help you clean it up.Â
Margie Boswell: Mmm.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: That's okay you spilled the milk. Everybody spills. I'll help you clean it up. Oh boy. That's okay you crashed the car. Everybody crashes the car. I'll help you figure it out. To be there. To be there.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. I love that. Thank you for being here with us today. We just so enjoyed it.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Oh… Thank you.Â
Joshua Boswell: Your wisdom's been amazing. So I wonder… A lot of people are going to hear this and say, okay, Lori's amazing. And they would be right.Â
Margie Boswell: Yes!Â
Joshua Boswell: And they're gonna say that and they're going to want to know how to get more of your resources and more insights. What's the best way for them to dive deeper into your world and to get more of what we've got today?
Lori Wildenberg: They can go to my website. That's the very best place to go.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, and that's www.LoriWildenberg.com right?Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yes. L-o-r-i-W-i-l-d-e-n-b-e-r-g dot com. That is the very best place to go. I've got my books there. They're all very… just like what we talked about today, right?Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: They're faith-based and they're very practical. Nothing hard, just something you can use right now.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: No big complicated formula.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.Â
Lori Wildenberg: So that is the very best place. You can also find me on social media, on Facebook and Instagram mostly. I also have a group that you did mention earlier called Moms Together. There's the Moms Together Community page and then the Moms Together group. And that's for moms and grandmoms.Â
Joshua Boswell: I love it! And that’s all on… Those two groups are on Facebook? Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: Yeah, is the one is just a page, the Community page which has a lot of resources. As does my author page, Lori Wildenberg. And then the group, it's a private group. So you have to ask to join.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: And you need to be a mom or a grandma in order to participate in that.
Margie Boswell: Sorry, honey.Â
Lori Wildenberg: We have had guys try to join but… you know.Â
Joshua Boswell: Sorry.
Lori Wildenberg: I know, sorry. But they can go to my author page. Everybody's welcome there, Lori Wildenberg, author. So that those are two of the main spots I would say.Â
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Lori Wildenberg: But my website… and then if your listeners or your viewers are interested, that this just goes along with the happy family idea, which so I love. I love that. Giving our kids a hundred and one ways to bless our child's heart. And if you would like that freebie, what you do is go to www.LoriWildenberg.com/101-ways. And you will get something that you can use immediately with your kids or your grandkids.
Joshua Boswell: Oh… fun!Â
Margie Boswell: That’s perfect!Â
Joshua Boswell: And do you have to be a woman to download that? Because I…Â
Lori Wildenberg: No, you actually don't. How about that, Joshua?
Joshua Boswell: Yaayy!! I can get the resources!Â
Margie Boswell: You got something! That’s great.
Joshua Boswell: All right, I love that. Actually, I love that, and I love that you've created a space for women and moms and grandmas to come and to collaborate and have a safe space with each other. So needed and I don't feel ostracized even slightly, so.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Well good. But we'll be looking for Margie.
Joshua Boswell: Yes, exactly!Â
Margie Boswell: I’ll get on there! That’s for sure. Thank you.Â
Joshua Boswell: Margie’s the super mom of the universe. She's amazing. At least in my opinion.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Yes, I believe you're right.
Joshua Boswell: Lori, thank you again so very much. And for all you guys listening, if you're in this space where you've got children, and they need to hear. Oh, it's okay you spilled the milk, everybody does it, and we'll clean it up together. Which I think all of us are. We just strongly encourage you to take the time to go check out Lori's stuff and, follow your heart. See if this isn't something that God has moved you to. If you listen to this today, I don't believe in accents. I think God puts people and circumstances in our place in our path when we need them. And so if you're listening to this now, it's probably because God is saying, You know what? You've been struggling and Lori is a great resource to help you out. And so I encourage you to go check her out. So Lori, again… Thank you with all of our hearts. We appreciate your time and for everything you've given to us today. Thank you very very much.Â
Margie Boswell: Thank you, Lori.Â
Lori Wildenberg: Thank you for having me.
Joshua Boswell: You're welcome. Talk to you soon. Okay. Bye now.Â
Margie Boswell: Bye.Â
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