Podcast Transcript
Attendees:
Joshua Boswell, Margie Boswell, Leslie Nunnery
Transcript:
Joshua Boswell: Hello friends, welcome to the Happy Family Club podcast. We are delighted to have you here and man, we have got an incredible treat for you today. I’ve spent the last couple days researching, Leslie, your world and all the stuff that you've done with homeschooling, your mission, your passion, your discipleship, all the things. And I cannot wait to hear personally from you all the good things, the wisdom that you have and the journey God's put you on. So thank you so much for being here. And I guess, Margie, do you want to introduce her officially? I always get ahead of myself, but give an official introduction and we’ll dive in.
Margie Boswell: Well, Leslie Nunnery. We're so happy that you're with us and I feel like we really relate to you in a lot of key points in your journey and in our journey. Leslie's a Christian Author and speaker and she advocates for homeschooling. Which…
Joshua Boswell: Specifically disciple-based homeschooling.
Margie Boswell: Yes! Yeah. She's the co-founder of the Teach Them Diligently Ministry, which is beautiful. I love that. It provides resources and experiences for disciple-based, Christian homeschooling.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. And can I interrupt?
Margie Boswell: Yeah!
Joshua Boswell: I love the title of your book, The Heart School. This emphasis and this focus you have instead of just… it's not just homeschool. This is heart school. And there's so many powerful things there. So I didn't mean to interrupt. Go ahead.
Margie Boswell: Well, yeah, that's who she is. It's amazing. You have four children, is that right, Leslie?
Leslie Nunnery: We do. Yeah, and thank you all so much for having me here. It is a joy to be with you. I'm excited to dive into our conversation. This is a true honor to be here and I'm very very grateful.
Joshua Boswell: Thank you.
Leslie Nunnery: But yes, David and I have four children. We have three that have graduated and launched, two that are married, one that is pole moving to Poland in January to do some Mission work over there.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Leslie Nunnery: So the Lord is quickly changing our family which is exciting and a little traumatizing all at the same time.
Joshua Boswell: We know that.
Margie Boswell: Yeah!
Leslie Nunnery: But it's good because you parent to that end.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: And so to see the Lord be faithful through all these years and to prepare them well to launch out and to serve Him on their own has been a real joy. So yeah! Many years ago, I guess it was 2011, God called us to start Teach Them Diligently.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Leslie Nunnery: And we started as doing a one-time event to celebrate discipleship in homeschool families. And the Lord, that first year, brought in 1500 families from four different countries and 38 states. And it was overwhelming. And people were so hungry to get that kind of a focus and that kind of content that He wouldn't let us stop. So for the last 12 years now, we've been producing events and walking alongside of families even as God was growing our own. So we've been a customer of ours as we've learned along with. And now we kind of get out the other side and God allows us to mentor and invest in lives and it's been a true joy.
Joshua Boswell: That is amazing, Leslie.
Margie Boswell: Beautiful.
Joshua Boswell: So, I’ve got a number of questions for you. But if I can follow up a little bit on that, what really…? You know, when you and David are in conversations, a lot of people struggle with where they should go and how they should do it. And raising children is a huge responsibility that most people take very seriously. And so, what were some of the precipitating events or the reasons behind why you started down the path of both homeschool and being a great service to other people? I mean, I know God placed it on your heart, but something caused you to be open to that. And so what were some of those precipitating events that happened in the backstory?
Leslie Nunnery: The backstory for us starting to homeschool is not terribly different from the backstory of Teach Them Diligently,…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: The Lord… So we had moved to where we live now in South Carolina specifically for a Christian School that we wanted our kids to go to. We had been in an area where there really weren't any schools. The churches were not particularly good and we had just really been praying about it, felt like God was saying, move.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: We didn't know what that would mean because David didn't have a job at the time for us to move too.
Joshua Boswell: right
Leslie Nunnery: But we did. He went in and told his boss that he really felt like this wasn't a great place for our family and we were gonna launch out with us thinking we were gonna come here and find a job. His employer actually said, Nope, we just want you to work from there. So they moved us, they paid for everything. It was truly miraculous the way God worked that out.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Leslie Nunnery: Our kids started going to the school. It was fantastic. Had no doubt that the kids were loved. They were getting a good education that were getting a Godly worldview education. And yet at about the start of my oldest son's third grade year, I really felt like the Lord was impressing on my heart that my time with my children was short.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And how I used that, I was going to answer for.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And He, for the first time ever, really started leading me towards homeschooling. Which was not on my radar. In fact, I was one of many people who would never ever do it. Didn't really know any homeschoolers that I thought were normal at that time.
Joshua Boswell: right
Leslie Nunnery: Or so I thought. But actually, funnily enough, I argued with the Lord kind of as I… I say I prayed about it or I would have said that at the time. Really I was just arguing with the Lord.
Joshua Boswell: It's just arguing with Him.
Leslie Nunnery: Just trying to get my way. You are totally mistaken. I can’t… whatever. Until about the first of December of that year when I finally realized, Okay, if I bring it up to David, he can tell me I'm crazy but I'm being submissive. He's shutting me down. I have to be the submissive wife. Instantly win.
Joshua Boswell: And you’re off the hook! Beautiful. Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Exactly! I had it all figured out, life was gonna be great. Come to find out, God had been leading his heart in the same way. But what he had been noticing was that a lot of the kids and the families that we really wanted our children to be around or that we had been looking to as kind of mentors and people that we wanted investing in us actually were homeschooling.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And so, even though in my mind I was like, I don't know any homeschoolers that are normal and blah blah all the party line. The truth of the matter is, God was pointing out to us all of the wonderful things family-wise and discipleship-wise that homeschool does without us even fully understanding what He was doing.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Leslie Nunnery: So we brought it up to our kids over the Christmas break. They were all in, wanted to start right away. I did not want to start right away. So we waited until…
Joshua Boswell: You're like wait, I was resisting this, now there’s this tidal wave! What's going on here?
Leslie Nunnery: Everybody was in.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Everybody was in except you.
Leslie Nunnery: I needed to learn a little bit more.
Joshua Boswell: Right, exactly. Love it.
Leslie Nunnery: I mean, the Lord's timing is good and He always uses it. But I didn't really learn a whole lot that semester that I took to prepare that really changed much.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Because you just dive in and do it. But the reason that we started homeschooling, essentially, was not for education. It was not because of a bully, it was not because of a bad teacher, it was because of discipleship. We wanted to have the time and the intentionality to invest in our children at a very very deep level. And so at the end of our first year of homeschooling, which is absurd looking back. At the end of our first year of homeschooling, David was filling the call to go full-time into Ministry. And he took a job as the president of a mission board that he had been running for years in a volunteer role while he worked his other job. And it's a business as missions mission agency. And so when we started we were tasked with creating something to support our family. Because you can't talk about business's missions and go out and raise money, you kind of need to do what you're talking about.
Joshua Boswell: Okay.
Leslie Nunnery: And so we started two businesses at the end of our first year of homeschooling. One was Teach Them Diligently, which is absurd because we knew nothing about homeschooling whatsoever.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Leslie Nunnery: And the other was a group of preschools in Poland. Because we are using gospel Ministry to reach families and to have a platform for the gospel in Europe. So that's how the Lord led us. It's been amazing. He actually took what was in our hand, both David and myself had done a lot of marketing work, a lot of PR work, a lot of events work in our professional lives.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And that was exactly what God knew we needed to do, what He was calling us into in the years ahead. So we see His plan being perfect, not always easy, but perfect. And we're very grateful.
Margie Boswell: Wow!
Joshua Boswell: Just wow, that's incredible.
Margie Boswell: Thank you for sharing that story.
Joshua Boswell: That's an incredible story. One of the things that I want everyone to hear is that… so Leslie, you stepped into this feeling like you're unprepared, you weren't ready for it. There was some resistance there.
Margie Boswell: Didn’t want to do it.
Leslie Nunnery: Oh, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: But I want everyone to notice that there's something really powerful here and that the reason why you dived in, you and David jumped into this, was a core reason that has really eternal, powerful significance. And that is that Ministry, that discipleship of your children.
Leslie Nunnery: Absolutely, it was fully.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, I mean totally. And that changes the entire equation. It's like, Oh, I got a homeschool because my kids are being bullied. It's like, just find another school then, right?
Leslie Nunnery: Right.
Joshua Boswell: I mean, there's all kinds of things that can go on. But… and I think even if we take the homeschool thing out of the equation, as parents we have this incredible, divine, both obligation and opportunity, this blessing, to really raise our children up in the way that they should go.
Margie Boswell: Unto the Lord, yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And when we do we get all the benefits of the joy and the happiness and we get the power to go through all the different struggles that we're going to face, etc. And so I think that the reason why I love your story so much is because your ability to get through all the challenges… that I would love to hear about just a minute. Your ability to get through all that was that you were grounded in an incredibly powerful cause.
Leslie Nunnery: Absolutely.
Joshua Boswell: As a mother and as a disciple of Christ and focusing on those children… I just think it's absolutely beautiful. And here's what I want to point out to everybody. If you feel inadequate, then what I think you should do, and I bet Leslie would agree, is I think get centered on your core mission and get centered on partnering with God. And whatever our deficits are, He makes up for it. That's what Margie and I have seen
Leslie Nunnery: Absolutely.
Joshua Boswell: There is not a less prepared human being on the planet than me to homeschool. Or even to be a dad, for that matter. But we’ve made a miraculous, beautiful thing because we partner with God. And Leslie, I hear parts of that in your story as well.
Leslie Nunnery: Oh, no question. No question. It all comes down to mission.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: And it comes down to recognizing how that applies to every decision you make, every area of your life. Really simplifies things too.
Joshua Boswell: Totally. Yeah. We love that… There's a quote that says when you put God first, everything else either falls out of your life or falls into its proper place.
Margie Boswell: Into place. Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Exactly.
Joshua Boswell: And that's why it does define every single piece of your conversation, your decisions, and it simplifies things enormously. Yeah. So just for fun, I'd love to hear is there a little vignette or a snapshot of some of the most challenging things that you’ve faced? And the business side of me would love to hear about what business. Like… what business thing happened?
And then homeschool dad would love to hear like in homeschooling… what are some… so maybe just identify a couple of the struggles. Because I'm sure that they were there and then we'll actually get to the core question of our whole conversation in just a minute. But can you identify a couple of really hard things you went through and how you overcame those in this journey? Both on the business side and on the homeschool side?
Leslie Nunnery: Oh sure! I love talking about the challenges. It's always fun. You know on the homeschool side, we have four children, three of whom are three and a half years apart. And then there was a little bit of a break before our fourth one came through. And so there was just a lot of intensity at all times. And so the challenges really on the homeschooling side largely came down to any insecurity that I felt really impacted the first three.
Joshua Boswell: yeah, yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Like sometimes you can get it all settled with the first one, then it gets easier? Like my fourth one, it's so easy. But my first three, there was every lie that was whispered to me, every insecurity that I wanted to believe, every diversion. Every time I wanted to take my focus off of what I was really called to do.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: I was trying to make sure that that didn't derail all three of them. That was intense.
Joshua Boswell: All of them. Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: There was an intensity there that looking back… I should not have allowed to be. I should have really… You know. A lot of what I've written in heart school would have protected me and my kids in that.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Thank God, He kept us from making any big mistakes. Thank the Lord we have our kids’ hearts.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: You know even as my son who got married in July calls me every day after work on his way home from work. Like on his way home from work I’m his first call. It's amazing. It's glorious. So, we still have these great relationships with our kids because God uses even our falters.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: God uses even when we stub our toe. But I really think that the pressure. Those traps and triggers and all the things that everybody deals with you, I did too. And the way that I saw that that just has the potential to derail everything would be where those struggles really came in. But the fact that God is good and He kept us and He never left us and He brought reminders and people into our lives to keep us on track is a testament to His grace and His goodness.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Leslie Nunnery: And so I'm very very grateful on that. On the business side, we…. I feel like that's a pretty easy one. There's been a lot of ups and downs. You know, in any business there are as many ups as downs.
Joshua Boswell: Sure.
Leslie Nunnery: And just a lot of variations there. But what I think is just the most impactful. When we were very young in this, we made some wide-eyed decisions that probably were led a little bit by pride by the ego of just getting out that we had all this wind at our back and we were gonna go. And we outkicked our coverage. We went farther than the Lord had told us to go.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: He miraculously sustained us. Which defies explanation. But set us on a path that was really difficult for a long time.
Joshua Boswell: yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Just kind of putting stuff back together that we unraveled. And the Lord uses all of that to refine us and shape us. And I'm so grateful for it, but it wasn't pleasant and it wasn't easy. But even our kids got to see how faithful God is despite what we do.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Despite, you know, decisions that we make. As we follow Him, He will faithfully protect and uphold His own. So all of us grew together, even through those difficult times of Teach Them Diligently. .
Joshua Boswell: I love it.
Margie Boswell: That’s great.
Joshua Boswell: And the beautiful thing about it is that is I think sometimes people start in these different… Like, they feel like God wants them to go do something, and oftentimes we think, If God wants me to do this, then this is smooth sailing. It’s just gonna work out.
Margie Boswell: It's all gonna work out.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah and a lot of times God wants us to do things that actually will create growth and stretching in us because of the difficulties and the challenges.
Leslie Nunnery: Absolutely.
Joshua Boswell: And I really want everyone to hear this. Challenges, setbacks, mistakes, failures, quote unquote failures, financial struggles, discipline struggles with the children, not knowing if you actually prepared them for anything, life, like all of these doubts and struggles or legitimate things, health concerns Etc.
Like Leslie's talking about here, these are not abnormal. You're not a freak show, you're not off the rails because you are going through this struggle. In fact, you're probably right on track. And God's gonna teach you stuff. Just like you guys kind of, you said got outside your cover and got a little bit ahead of yourself. But God will use that to bless you and your children and to teach you that He's there through struggle to support us.
And so, it's an incredible, valuable lesson to be like, Oh, struggle is normal. It's okay. And that's why we partner with God, is to get us through this.
Leslie Nunnery: right
Joshua Boswell: I really appreciate you sharing that. I hadn’t anticipated asking that, but I'm so glad I did. So thank you.
Margie Boswell: Thank you.
Leslie Nunnery: You just got raw. I wasn't prepared for that one, so it's just honest right there.
Margie Boswell: It was great.
Joshua Boswell: It was beautiful. Thank you. So let's address the core question that Margie and I love asking all of our guests. And that is, what do you see is a key principle, when applied, will create a happier family environment?
And we're always quick to point out that we don't equate happiness with typical pleasure or instant gratification or any of those kinds of things. We really mean deep, Godly, intense joy.
Margie Boswell: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And sustained happiness in the family. And so we'd love to hear what you think is a core principle that will lead to that that you've seen in your experience.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah, I appreciate that question. That actually is a really big deal to us. And you've leaned into it already. At the heart of truly being joyful, walking in peace, having less chaos, all of that.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: If you can center yourself on your mission. Allow that to impact how you choose… in that homeschool discussion, how you choose curriculum, how you order your days, whether you're in a co-op or not, whether… All of these things, they do line up so much easier and it's so much easier to get everyone in line behind a mission that is bigger than these small things.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: So often, in any endeavor, but again, talking specifically about homeschooling, when your reason to homeschool is small. I.e. you're running from a bully, or the schools are failing, whatever. When your reason is small then your resolved to stay the course and hard times will be as well.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: Whereas If you have something bigger that you're shooting for, in our case, we were going for the hearts of our children. That drove every decision that we made. We wanted to bring them to Jesus, teach them to love God and love people, and then show them what that looks like in everyday life.
Margie Boswell: Mm-hm…
Leslie Nunnery: And then also prepare them well to walk through any door that God opens. So that element of our mission made us want to educate them excellently. We didn't want to be responsible for anything that would be a closed door to them because of something that we did. But because our kids knew our mission, because David and I were cohesive in our mission, that gave so much joy. It removes so much friction, it brought peace to our days which lends itself to joy. It had us all moving in one direction rather than pulling against each other. And it is profoundly impactful.
Joshua Boswell: Awesome. So can I ask you a couple of questions on that? Because it's a beautiful answer. It's really really cool. First question that comes to my mind, and I'm sure others probably have asked you, but when you get centered on that mission, I think that some people are going to say, Well, how do I know what my mission is? And where do I go to define that and really get clarity on that so that I can look at the rest of the family and draw them up to that? So what are your thoughts on how to get some clarity on that and resources for doing so? What's some practical approach to that?
Leslie Nunnery: Well, as a… I assume that most of the people that are watching your show or listening to your podcast are Christian families. They are believing families.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: As a Christian parent, your home is your Jerusalem. God gave us all as believers one mission. Therefore my mission as a parent is to bring my kids to Jesus.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. There you go.
Leslie Nunnery: And then to prepare them to go out from there. That is my big mission. Homeschooling is a tool for that mission. What church we attend is a tool for that mission. All of these things are tools for my big mission. And God made it really easy because He gave us the great mission before He left.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: So once we kind of look at that as our marching orders as Christians, we're able to see this big piece of the puzzle fall right in place and then start evaluating every area of our life as to how it fits. As a dad, how does your job fit with your mission of bringing your kids to Jesus and preparing them well to follow Him? How does… you know, all of these questions become tools or pieces. But our mission, actually God gave us.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: That's a fairly easy one for a Christian family to answer.
Joshua Boswell: Good. I would only add one word to your answer, and that is it should be an easy answer.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah. Exactly.
Joshua Boswell: Because I think a lot of people are concerned or confused. And at least I know in a lot of the circles that I run in, I deal primarily in terms of business stuff. And a lot of the companies that I've worked with and a lot of the entrepreneurs… I've had the privilege of coaching over close to 40,000 entrepreneurs and business owners from around the world. And most of them are Christian. And most of them and I'm saying this in a very nice way, but a lot of people spend so much time on self-help books, personal development books. And what's your mission in life, and all these kinds of things.
And so we start getting our… our brain starts going off in a million different things. Well maybe my mission is to grow this company and to do whatever. Or maybe my mission is this and that. And the clarity with which you give your answer, which has always been mine and Margie's answer. Not the bad ourselves on the back, but it's like we’ve never had any other intent or purpose in our family then to bring our children to Christ and back to Heavenly Father. It’s like… well what we're doing! Right? So the clarity is beautiful, Leslie, and I really appreciate you bringing that. And it does simplify everything.
So… I got a second question here. I think that then, having our children's heart, as you say, I think is central to being able to bring them back to God, right?
Leslie Nunnery: Oh yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Because if we’re at odds and there's tension and stress and…
Margie Boswell: Discord, contention.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. I just don't know how effective we are. I know that in terms of human persuasion we're zero effective when there's discord, it doesn't work. So I wonder what it looks like, if you can kind of paint a picture. What does it look like to have our children's hearts? And what are some practical steps, if you get summarize a few ideas about getting to that stage? Because a lot of people, especially when you go into the teenage years, it's like, My kid just blew up! Well… okay, they do change, but there are ways to address that. So what does it look like having our children's hearts? And what are some practical ways that we can get there?
Leslie Nunnery: Sure. Going for our children's hearts is an incredibly natural thing, really. I think because of all of the self-help books and all of the noise and glut of information that, especially young parents today are getting. Which is… I'm so thankful I wasn't a young parent with all of this coming at me.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: But it does tend to distract and make things much harder. But actually, from the very youngest of ages, getting on the floor, playing, showing your little kids that you care about what they care about is laying a foundation for incredible relationships with your kids when they are tweens and teens and beyond.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: But if you've missed that time, it doesn't mean that it's too late to start.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Actually investing in conversations, asking your kids questions, listening for their answers. Not running when they say something that just scares the fool out of you. Because they will. Because they're growing up and they're growing up in an era where, as sheltered as you may try to keep them, they're hearing stuff that is different than what you're telling them.
Margie Boswell: Mmm-hmm.
And so they're going to be wrestling and trying to figure out what they believe. Allowing them to talk about those things and actually engaging with them and helping them learn to think Biblically…. All of those things are showing them that you recognize that they are, first of all, competent and complex. We're not just talking down to our children, we're engaging with our children. And we're coming alongside, definitely in a parental role. I don’t… When I talk about coming alongside and really guiding and directing and leading with conversations, that doesn't remove any authority.
Joshua Boswell: Of course. Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: That's just the way that we're engaging and showing them that we are listening and we care.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And then with questions, David and I talk all the time about how questions prick the conscience, that accusations harden the will.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: So going in, even when something comes up that is really difficult, or a question that just curls your toes, going in and finding out what's at the heart of those things.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: And helping them think through it rather than just boom dealing with that fruit that top line stuff that you're seeing is actually going a long way towards building a trust that you are actually there with them to walk. It builds deep, deep relationships. It gives you unbelievable insight into what's in their heart already so that you can shepherd the heart that they have, not the one that you want them to have.
Joshua Boswell: Want them to have.
Leslie Nunnery: So just engaging and taking the time to be intentional in your conversations. But it's not all serious. A lot of our best conversations happen after just all craziness broke loose around the dinner table. And then something would spur a more deep conversation and we'd all engage in it. And it's just the natural rhythm of doing life together and looking for those moments.
And honestly, it… As a mom, when I look back in my rear view mirror, I started my day every day in God's word, praying that God would give me wisdom and insight into the situations of that day. And He led. He never failed to be with me even in difficult situations with my kids. And those relationships that were built through Legos or Minecraft or Nerf wars or tag or whatever it was as we were playing, or those deep conversations when our kids were hurting. Those middle, those tween years are so difficult as everything inside of our kids are changing.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Right.
Leslie Nunnery: They don't know what's going on. They feel completely out of control. And yet as a parent on mission, we're able to come alongside, put our arm around them as they are crying and don't even know why and help them understand that but this is all part of God growing them into the man or woman that he created them to be. And giving them context for what's going on that makes them feel out of control. Rather than pushing them off on someone else who is going to give them other things that we don't want them to have.
Joshua Boswell: That's right.
Leslie Nunnery: To explain their confusion or their fear or whatever.
Joshua Boswell: That's right.
Leslie Nunnery: So those relationships that you're able to build by just deep engagements with your kids, day in and day out, driving in the car. The Bible… the Teach Them Diligently verse that our ministry is based on is, you're teaching your kids diligently while you walk, while you talk, when you sit down, when you rise, when you lay down, all of these things. You know, when you're doing laundry, when you're doing dishes, when you're in the grocery store. All of these places are the… They’re your platform to teach your children diligently, to get those deep relationships built.
And then it's those relationships that you have invested in all those years that keep your kids from wandering. Or from launching out and never looking back. Those are the ties that really do bind and allow you the joy of walking and doing life with your adult kids later once they fly.
Joshua Boswell: I love the simplicity of this. Because you don't need a lot of complex psychology or this, that and the other. Really this deep connection based on time, being there at the crossroads. One of the things that we have always loved about homeschooling is we're not taking, six to nine hours a day of our children's lives and our time with them and putting it someplace else, you know, minusing it out.
Leslie Nunnery: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And then all the busyness that goes on around that of them up, getting them dressed, getting them to the bus, getting them there, picking them back up, extra curricular activities, all the different stuff and it's not that a lot of those things are bad. It's just that what you're talking about is both a quality time and a quantity time.
Leslie Nunnery: right
Joshua Boswell: It’s deep impact in their lives. And it's just absolutely beautiful.
Margie Boswell: That’s how you create connection with your children.
Leslie Nunnery: Exactly.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And it's really easy to program yourself, even as a homeschooler where you're here, there, you've got lessons and practices and plays and co-ops…
Joshua Boswell: yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: all of these things. Because you feel like your kids are missing out if they're not in it.
Joshua Boswell: right
Leslie Nunnery: So that you're creating a scenario… where you're just kind of passing and you're frustrated and brittle.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And I think that a lot of that, again if you just zero down to your mission, it's going to inform what of those things are good for that season.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Leslie Nunnery: Probably none of those things are bad, but everything in every season. And you've got to be wise about that.
Joshua Boswell: Totally yes.
Margie Boswell: That’s right. Love that.
Joshua Boswell: I remember years ago we lived in Helena, Montana, and Margie was pregnant with sixth… sixth?
Margie Boswell: Sixth or seventh. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah so our oldest were just getting that age, and we fell and a serious drive to have them in the piano and ballet and the little league sports…
Margie Boswell: T-ball.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah t-ball and all these kinds of things, and the co-ops and the groups. And Margie and I sat down one day and we're like, You know what…? Again there's no judgment. Everything is a different season and right for different people in different circumstances. But the thing is that we had this conversation that was like, Okay, so we just spent this much time doing piano lessons, ballet, boy scouts, t-ball and Etc.
Margie Boswell: Mm-hmm…
Joshua Boswell: What if we multiply… as the children get older, let's multiply that by six, seven, eight, nine times. Is that gonna work for that season of our life when our children are younger?
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah, right.
Joshua Boswell: And is it required for us to get them back to Christ? Are those activities required?
Leslie Nunnery: right
Joshua Boswell: For our family? And it was like… Oh, well first of all, from a time perspective, it doesn't work. Second of all from a Christ, gospel perspective, it wasn't required.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And in fact, it might have been detrimental for our family. Again. I don't want anyone to take this as any kind of negative to any of those things. It's just what was right in the season for Margie and I. But having the mission at the focus was what drove those decisions.
Leslie Nunnery: Absolutely.
Joshua Boswell: And that's what I want everyone to hear. It's like, you get clear on the fact that we're getting these children back to Christ safely as we possibly can. And then what drives that for them and for their personalities and for their purpose that God has for them, Etc. So it's really powerful.
Leslie Nunnery: Right and even when you are focused on your mission and you're allowing the mission to determine what you're taking part in, you can bring your kids into the mission too that way.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Leslie Nunnery: So we were able to see our children when they played… they were very involved. They played basketball.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: My girls played volleyball, and there were co-ops and there were lessons and all of these things happened through the years.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Leslie Nunnery: But we were able to position those as missional things.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: And that may have informed why we didn't do multiple sports at one time or… We didn't have these collisions because of the mission. It enables… it really straightens out all of your conversations about it. It gives very solid guide rails for you to line your family up. And it's very very helpful.
Joshua Boswell: Powerful.
Margie Boswell: So great. Love that.
Joshua Boswell: I have a follow-up question on that. Because there’s the broader mission and then you’ve noticed as we’ve noticed… God sends us each of these children, even though we’ve got very similar genetics DNA markers. It’s like… both of them came from Margie and I. All those children. That’s the only place they came from was she and I. But they come very different, right?
Leslie Nunnery: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: And I wonder what your experience has been in terms of being able to recognize and identify God's mission and purpose and kind of focus for those children. Versus the one that we want them to have. And then how does that recognition for each one of those individual children, how has that informed your decisions moving forward? In terms of the schooling and extracurricular stuff and relationships, Etc.? So what's in your experience there?
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah, that's actually an excellent point, excellent question. Yeah, we have four very different kids. They have different learning styles, different personalities, different trajectories. God has them on different paths.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: And when they're very very little, those differences aren’t… there's some elements in which they're seen, but as they get older those get more pronounced.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: As you see more independence, more… you get to know those children more as who they are. And they figure out who they are.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: So when they're young, you're really getting to know them. You're spending the time with them, you're seeing this one's more quiet needs more alone time. This one talks constantly and one of which is in my head still talks constantly, almost…
Joshua Boswell: Is he the one that calls you every day?
Leslie Nunnery: No, no, but we're gonna talk about him in a second.
Joshua Boswell: Okay.
Leslie Nunnery: It's my baby. She talks all the time, it’s so funny.
Joshua Boswell: Love it.
Leslie Nunnery: But yeah, you get to know them. And then in my life, one of the things that God led me to do, which was the most amazing thing... I'm actually writing a book now with Tricia Goyer about this. But when my kids were about 14, I started reading through the Bible and journaling for that specific child. So each of my kids for their 16th birthday got a Bible that I worked about two years on, prayed specifically for them.
There are letters in there, there are… you know, in some of it it's just thoughts. Sometimes it's working out the passage, but a lot of times it was just letters of this is what I'm thinking for you. That when this comes along, whatever, as God led me. But what I found through doing those was the Insight that God gave me into the child that I was praying for was unbelievable.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And my second son, who is the one that calls me every day now, he was the one that was completely veiled to me. He was the one that, when he was a kid, he was David's son. David, your son need your attention. Because I couldn't figure him out.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: He's so very different than me. And yet through that exercise of literally searching God's word for him for about a year and a half, two years, I was able to get to know him because God took the scales off of my eyes and gave me insight into his heart in ways that I would have never imagined. And it changed the way that I related to him. It changed the way that I parented him moving forward. Because I could see him so much more clearly.
And that happened with all of them, it was so pronounced with him. The difference was so massive and just… God was so faithful as they grew. And it would… in my life, He used that exercise of creating a legacy Bible for each one of them but as they grew and I sought His face for that specific child and as I would read and God would say, this is what that one needs. He just unlocks them for parents who are seeking Him. Because he is able. Our Heavenly Father Knows our kids better than any other… anything we can imagine.
Margie Boswell: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And He wants us to know them as well. And so as we see His face and as we engage with Him and as, you know, something happens and there's just this little thing in the back of your head that remembers, Oh, He said that. And then it comes back around later when something else and you're piecing stuff together. That’s the Holy Spirit answering your prayer for knowledge and understanding of that child and He is so good to do it.
Joshua Boswell: I love it.
Margie Boswell: That's beautiful.
Joshua Boswell: I think that's the best answer I've ever heard about how to understand your child.
Leslie Nunnery: Well thank you. Praise the Lord. That's awesome.
Margie Boswell: That’s great.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly and it's absolutely true. Nobody anywhere knows our children the way Heavenly Father does.
Leslie Nunnery: Right.
Joshua Boswell: It's just the case. And so looking to… And the thing about it is it's the open secret of the universe, right? It's like, if we're willing to ask, God's willing to give us all the answers in the universe that relate to us and to our family and our children, especially.
Leslie Nunnery: If any you lack wisdom…
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Margie Boswell: Ask of God.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Margie Boswell: Liberally. He’ll give it liberally.
Joshua Boswell: I think that's really really powerful. So in terms of the day-to-day process and routines of going through that, how did you make decisions about what that looked like in terms of… Because four children, different things, different activities. What was a decision making process that you and David went through to define, Okay, let's do this or not.
Leslie Nunnery: So I think that a lot of it came down to what were our non-negotiables.
Joshua Boswell: mmm
Leslie Nunnery: So that really gave a lot of structure to the other decisions. Because of our mission, our non-negotiables were we wanted to be in church, we wanted to worship the Lord together. Dinner times, meals together were a big deal.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Not that we never missed, not that there were seasons where it was more chaotic. But that was a priority for us. The time to actually spend physically with our children was a big deal. So all of those things really were always there as we were taking these individual decisions to heart.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: For example, my… I had two of my kids who were… well actually three of my kids were very good athletes. Incredibly good athletes. And highly decorated in their respective sports.
Joshua Boswell: yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And as they got older and the opportunities for AAU or Club volleyball or whatever opened up, a lot of those non-negotiables really factored into that. But because we had been so open with the mission, because we had spent a lifetime trying to train our children for what God wants for them and give them biblical reasons for why we do what we do. So we weren't just passing down our rules on them. We were helping them understand the biblical basis for what we did.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Then as we came to, Okay, you have this opportunity, a coach wants you to do this, it involves travel multiple weekends a month, and then without exception the kids themselves chose not to do that.
Joshua Boswell: They chose not to do it. Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Now, would they have actually had the option? Yeah…? But they chose not to do it.
Joshua Boswell: They did it. Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah, because we were able to lean on the things that we had already talked about. Talk about what God's plan is and long-term things, instant gratification, all of these things. And so, those non-negotiables based on your mission give you an awful lot of structure that makes those everyday decisions a whole lot easier. Even the big, the seemingly huge everyday decisions become a lot easier when you have that structure of what are your non-negotiables based on your mission?
Joshua Boswell: I love that. You know I have the picture of Christ is the cornerstone, right? Like you sit down on the foundation, the essential things in your life. And then everything else flows around that. And that's really what I hear you saying. And I think that's incredible that you look at… And I think it for everyone listening here, sitting down as a family and having a family counsel, agreeing that, Yes, here's the mission. And then what are the non-negotiables for our family and our season that support the fulfillment of that mission? And then everything else just gets to flow around it.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: Or not.
Joshua Boswell: Or not. Right?
Leslie Nunnery: Well yeah, exactly.
Margie Boswell: And it's okay if something falls out, yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: Right, and so often you see, once the difficult decision is made to let it fall out it, it doesn’t take long a lot of times before you see that it was better.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly. Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: So often that's the same with us in our adult lives as it is in our children's lives. You tend to see the right way becomes very very evident as you walk towards it. We actually just did a, we called it a Heart School parents intensive where we walked side by side with a group of parents. But one of the things that we help them do is take their mission, kind of define it the way that they thought it would look, for their families, the way that they phrased it.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And then their goals, their Vision, their family culture. Actually help them think and work through all of these things. Because so often as families, we don't take the time to do that.
Joshua Boswell: That's right.
Leslie Nunnery: And because we've never actually quantified why we do what we do, we're always flopping around.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Leslie Nunnery: Whereas just taking the time to think through those things gives so much structure and brings so much peace.
Joshua Boswell: So cool. Was that a… just on a side note, was that a small group intensive where you had three, four or five families? Or…
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah it was basically a mastermind.
Joshua Boswell: Love it.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah, so we do those periodically where… we can't work with everybody.
Joshua Boswell: Of course.
Leslie Nunnery: But we work with smaller groups just to practically move them through some of the steps that we talk about.
Joshua Boswell: And the heart school book, does it help with some of those elements in there? We're brand new to the book so I haven't read it yet. I’m sorry, but I will repent. I promise.
Leslie Nunnery: It, yeah, the Heart School book actually walks you through really a lot of foundation and then seven steps of a Heart Schooler.
Joshua Boswell: Love it.
Leslie Nunnery: It just breaks it down in a way that I think gives a lot of clarity, but also peace. And a lot of encouragement, because a lot of the things that I talk about, as you guys have noted, people know. It’s not… these aren't profound, earth-shattering, you've never thought of this before stuff.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Leslie Nunnery: But putting it in a line and then practically saying how to work it out is really helpful. There are assessments in there to help you see where you are and kind of make you start thinking about things more strategically.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Leslie Nunnery: And so there's all of that. There's a master class that you can go a little bit deeper and, then we have our intensive. So there's a whole lot of different ways that we want to just help families get on track and stay on track.
Joshua Boswell: I love it.
Leslie Nunnery: Because the generational impact of that is… you just can't overstate it.
Margie Boswell: Yeah. Mm-hm.
Joshua Boswell: I love it. I want to go back to the non-negotiables real quick. And then we're probably getting close to wrapping up. But one of the things that I hear you talk about and that I would…. You didn't say these words, but I'm gonna kind of identify it.
I find in life that there's a lot of high leverage stuff. So for example, we have about three, two acres or so of lawn here on our property. And I can mow that lawn with an old just some push mower. And I could get it done, but it's gonna take a long time.
Leslie Nunnery: Right, right.
Joshua Boswell: I could mow it with a small little riding lawn mower. I can get out, a big mower that's got bat wings on the side and you you know I’ve got about 15…
Leslie Nunnery: I want that one.
Joshua Boswell: I know, exactly, right? And you’ve got 10 or 15 feet of mowing deck and you can get it done really really fast.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And one of the things that I would encourage all of our listeners to is this look at… God has given us insight into what’s high leverage stuff. So for example, somebody asked Him, Well what's the greatest command? Like, what's the biggie? Love the Lord God with all your heart, might, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.
Leslie Nunnery: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And so we see that God's wisdom is that there are activities that are higher leverage than other activities. And so you mentioned, Look, we go to church. Well church is a phenomenally high leverage activity for family unity and family joy. We have found having a non-negotiable space where we have a family devotional and scripture study is a…
Margie Boswell: Daily.
Joshua Boswell: It’s a daily thing, and what is it, 15-20 minutes?
Leslie Nunnery: Yep.
Joshua Boswell: It's peanuts in terms of your schedule, and it's enormous in terms of your impact, right?
Leslie Nunnery: Exactly.
Joshua Boswell: And these non-negotiable things, if we're wise and we create high leverage activities, which obviously you've done and your book I think is all about this. I think it becomes so powerful because we can put, in not that I'm trying to say that we need to be lazy, but we can put in a minimal amount of effort and get massive rewards out of it.
Leslie Nunnery: Right, which is so important. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: It's so important because there is a lot of stuff to do and there’s all the extra curricular things. They're all the activities that we and our children need to do. And all these years you've been homeschooling and running businesses and being a mom and trying to be at the crossroads. And it's a lot of stuff and that we're all required to do, and that we're asked to do and so being wise with their time is really important.
So anyway, I just want to highlight that. All right, Leslie, is there anything as we kind of wrap up here, is there anything that you would have loved to say? Like, I wish Joshua Margie would have asked me this question, and they didn't and I've been dying to tell him about it!
Leslie Nunnery: Right!
Joshua Boswell: Is there some principle that you'd want to share with us we kind of wrap up? And then I want to, again before we let you go, I do want to talk a little bit more about your book and I think…
Margie Boswell: The event. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah an event and I think you've got a conference coming up. But first, anything that we should have asked you that you're like, Those guys. I can't believe they didn't ask me that. That's my favorite question.
Leslie Nunnery: Oh this has been a great conversation. I've absolutely enjoyed it. It's been a stretch and I've gotten to think big and I've thoroughly enjoyed all of that. It's been a joy to see that your vision and your mission is just aligned with ours so beautifully.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Leslie Nunnery: And that we were clearly speaking the same language. So yeah, I feel like we've covered a lot of ground and I hope that it's been a real encouragement. Again simple stuff. Get your mission, line up behind it and it'll make things a whole lot easier and more impactful for your family.
Joshua Boswell: Cool. Cool.
Margie Boswell: Wonderful. Thanks.
Joshua Boswell: So you said your book’s now available, Heart School.
Margie Boswell: And how did we find it?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, I think… yeah.
Margie Boswell: It's on the website?
Joshua Boswell: It’s on the website www.TeachThemDiligently.net, right?
Leslie Nunnery: Right. Yes…
Joshua Boswell: And is it www.TeachThemDiligently.net/book?
Leslie Nunnery: Yes! If you go to www.TeachThemDiligently.net/book, you can get it for five dollars in a digital copy, or we have a paperback copy as well that you can get there. And there's an audiobook, you can enjoy it anyway that you want to.
Joshua Boswell: Love it.
Leslie Nunnery: But I do encourage people to read it. It's a pretty quick read, but it will help you, I think, wade through the missional questions in your own family.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Leslie Nunnery: And give you some structure to start building your own heart school, which I believe all christian parents are called to Heart School their kids, no matter what tool of Education that they use
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, I love it. And you’re absolutely right. And we have people ask us all the time... I mean I'm thinking about several hundred different times when people have asked, how do you get started? And Margie and I, of course, we've always homeschooled and we've always been very intensely mission driven. And then people are like, Well, how do you even get started? What do you do? I'm like, I have a whole world of stuff to share with you. We don't have time right now. And Heart School is a perfect launch pad. It's a perfect first step from what I'm hearing for people to step into and say, Okay, how do I get mission-centered? What do I pull up behind that? and, What I do? and like you said there's assessments. I love your comment there about how questions open up the heart, right? And so you've got these assessments to help open up the heart.
Leslie Nunnery: Yep.
Joshua Boswell: Helps us to see where to go. So strongly encourage… A, if you're not clear on what your family mission is and B, if you're considering homeschooling or C, if you're homeschooling and you're like, I'm going crazy!!
Margie Boswell: Need help…
Leslie Nunnery: I got you, I got you.
Joshua Boswell: So Leslie has got us on that.
Leslie Nunnery: xThat’s right.
Joshua Boswell: So strongly encourage you to do that. Tell us a little bit about the conference, because I saw you have an event. You talked a little bit about it at the beginning, like the first one you had 1500 people from around the world come. What's that look like now, or do you have some coming up? What is that? Tell us about that?
Leslie Nunnery: So yeah, the first one had 1500 families. So it was more.
Joshua Boswell: Families, okay.
Leslie Nunnery: Yeah 10 to 15 thousand. Because our families are big so yeah, lots and lots of people. We have two big events coming up in 2024, both in May. One will be in Pigeon Forge Tennessee one will be in Branson Missouri. And it's really just three days of coming together, learning at the feet of some really godly individuals to talk about parenting and discipleship.
But also all the nuts and bolts of homeschooling. You're gonna get a lot of training in that. But because homeschooling is not just about academics, it impacts every area of your family. We have a lot of content on marriage and parenting and relationships and discipleship and even personal growth. And we have counseling sessions to help people deal with anger and fear and anxiety and just a lot of things are represented there to try to equip families to do what God has called them to do.
So those we generally have… there are thousands and thousands of people there. It's super exciting and we produce them with the entire family in mind. So we have a children's program and a program for the tweens and a teen program and a men's breakfast. Because we have seen through the years that if we have a men's breakfast we get more dads there, which is a big deal to us. And we always have bacon.
Joshua Boswell: Bacon’s essential to bring dads in. Bacon.
Leslie Nunnery: But we had one year where we didn’t do the bacon and there was like a revolt.
Margie Boswell: Oh! Cute.
Leslie Nunnery: But we get the dads together on Saturday morning at 7:30 and they come together, with their boys. The dads and boys come in. We feed them breakfast. There's a time of prayer and a session directed at them. And it has been unbelievably impactful. So we have special opportunities for every member of the family.
A lot of families use this as their vacation, which is why we're in Pigeon Forge and Branson. So they'll stretch it out, have some great family time, all grow and learn together. And the friendships that even the kids have made through Teach Them Diligently have been amazing. A lot of the kids just look forward to it every year. They stay in touch with the buddies they've made, and it's just been neat to see the way the Lord has connected people. So yeah, you can learn more about that at www.TeachThemDiligently.net/Events. And if your families would like to use the discount code HappyFamilies they can save fifteen dollars off of their registration because we would love to meet them there, love to walk alongside of them.
Joshua Boswell: You are so generous Leslie.
Margie Boswell: Thank you!
Joshua Boswell: Thank you very much. We will take advantage of that. That's awesome.
Leslie Nunnery: Well thank you.
Joshua Boswell: Very cool. So this has been incredible. I have felt joy in this. I’m so grateful. Margie and I are extremely grateful for the work that you and Dave are doing, Leslie. It's awesome. It's beautiful to see the families you're impacting. And turning them to God and helping them be clear on their mission is exactly what the world needs today, right?
Leslie Nunnery: Exactly.
Joshua Boswell: And more so… I mean, always in the history of the world that's always been what people have needed. But we're in a crazy time as I think we're all looking forward to when Christ comes again and settles a lot of stuff, but until then it's a mess.
Leslie Nunnery: Exactly.
Joshua Boswell: And so to have beautiful voices that are courageous and faithful like yours, Leslie… Thank you very much. We just really really appreciate it. And for all the good you're doing. So hats off to you, kudos and congratulations. It's wonderful.
Leslie Nunnery: Well thank you so much for having me today. It's been an absolute joy to chat with you.
Joshua Boswell: All right. Thanks so much Leslie.
Margie Boswell: Thank you, Leslie.
Joshua Boswell: Take care. Bye now.
Margie Boswell: Bye bye.