Podcast Transcript
Attendees:
Jessica Jackson, Margie Boswell, Joshua Boswell
Transcript:
Joshua Boswell: Hello everybody. Welcome to the Happy Family Club podcast. We are so excited to have you here. And we are really excited to have Jessica Jackson with us. What a joy it is to have you here. And thank you so much for taking your time and spending that with us.
We know you're a busy mom, and you're a busy entrepreneur, and you've got so many things going on. So this is awesome for you to spend a little time with us. And I know… just by way of introduction, I think you said you've got children ranging from ten down to three?
Jessica Jackson: Correct. Yes.
Joshua Boswell: So, you're busy… and you've got a degree in engineering. And if I remember you wrote your first website in like the fourth grade or something is, right? Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: That is correct. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Awesome.
Margie Boswell: Amazing. Yeah, it is. And then you’re also the founder of, Thriving In Motherhood. And you've got an amazing journal that you help people plan their life…. or, you've got a planner and a journal. We'll talk some more about that a little bit, but you've done some wonderful things. What I really was impressed with is, you have an incredible podcast with a lot of followers. You reached literally hundreds of thousands of people around the world, and it's just been an impressive thing to see what you've done. So, thank you again, for joining us.
Margie Boswell: Yeah, thank you. Jessica. We're excited to learn from you!
Jessica Jackson: Well… and I'm just honored to be a part of your mission. I believe so much in creating happy families.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, absolutely. For sure. So to dive right in, I mean… the main question we like to ask on these podcasts is: What do you see is the main thing that will help to create happy families?
And so I want to dive into that with you. But before we jump into that, I want to just talk a little bit about your background. I mean… I got to be honest with you, it's really rare to see someone in the middle of, mothering and with a busy life, decide that they're gonna spend a lot of time and build planners and tools and resources and be consistent over, I think, 290 some odd podcasts editions. And so what is the story behind this? Why are you doing this, Jessica? What's your passion here and what began your story?
Jessica Jackson: Yeah, so when I became a mom, 10 years ago this weekend…
Joshua Boswell: Yay! Congratulations.
Jessica Jackson: I know! It's a big milestone… But I had graduated from college, I had taught school and my husband was starting his PhD. And I just assumed I would love it. I mean, that's what I wanted to do.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Jessica Jackson: And it was so hard. It was incredibly hard. And I think part of it was our circumstances. We didn't live close to family, we never have. My husband was really busy in grad school, we were living one of those, like… cinder block, college housings that got torn down the year after we moved out. The water was gray sometimes and we chiseled a 12x12 square foot that we could stand on in the bathtub, not on mold.
Joshua Boswell: Oh…
Jessica Jackson: And so we were at the beginning of our marriage, and our career and whatever. But what I really discovered is that I was floundering. And I felt like the days would just drag on and on and on. I didn't know how to really take care of a baby. I don't know how to take care of myself and take care of a baby. And it was just boring and painful and exhausting. And I felt like I couldn't do anything that I wanted to do and yet it felt like there was nothing that I was doing. And so it was just a really hard start.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And two years later we had her second child. And at the same time, you wouldn't look at me and think I was surviving. I was doing things to the best of my ability, you know?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: So it wasn't like I was miserable and trying to make everyone miserable around me. You probably wouldn't know how much I was struggling, but I was. And so, when my second child was born in the hospital, I got something called C diff. It's a super bug in your colon. It took a few weeks to diagnose.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And I ended up back in the hospital for a week, trying to get that infection under control. It was very, very serious.
And during that time, I just kept thinking, I'm committed. I want to start living again. I am tired of just existing through my days. I am ready. And this isn’t ending, right? You guys have 11 children, right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And at the very beginning, you're like, Okay, this is actually a lifelong pursuit now that I'm starting on. So, I want to learn to like it. And so my solution was to go back to planning. Because since middle school, I've been a planner person. Franklin Covey, two pages a day, like… I know how to plan. But the problem was that all the things that I had done, and my two pages a day, no longer worked when I was a mom. I would try to schedule things out, and it wouldn't work because of the kids, or you know… they didn't sleep that night. So the plan I thought was good for that day did not work.
Joshua Boswell: Yep
Jessica Jackson: Or I would just write things I wanted to get done, and I would transfer them day after day after day, it was just so discouraging. And so I gave up for a while.
So during this period of time when I was recovering from having a baby and fighting a life-threatening infection… with two little kids, too who were two and under. I just was like, I know I have all these ideas in my brain. I have all these things that I want to do. How do I put them on paper in a way that I can move them forward?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And so I would just study every single planner that was on the market and be like, Okay, I don't even know… how do I? And I couldn't find anything that fit all the thoughts in my brain. So, I bought a notebook and I spent the next three years just puzzling together the perfect system for myself.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Jessica Jackson: Because I had spent years listening, reading… Like, David Allen's Getting Things Done, and learning from Michael Hyatt… all these corporate business people that teach business holders how to be successful. I was like, Okay, well, Moms need this too!
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Jessica Jackson: Like, I’m running a business and trying to manage a household. So yeah, I customized it for myself and I started a podcast probably at the end of that year, of year three. So now I had three kids
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And I started that podcast, because I was still struggling. Like, I had kind of figured out the planning, and I was trying to do stuff. But I was like, I still don't feel any joy here. Like I am… I am just in the depths. And to be fair, I was dealing with a lot of things. My grandma had died, a best friend, I had grief, I just had my third baby, the pregnancy was horrible. You know?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: My husband's still in grad school… Like, there were a lot of circumstances, but at the same time I’m like, There are other moms that are finding joy here.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: So I started this podcast with the title Thriving In Motherhood as a hope that it was possible.
Joshua Boswell: Hahahaha
Jessica Jackson: And as an excuse to interview anybody that looked like they were doing better than me. Which felt like everybody at that time, right? And so that's really where it started and after just constantly trying to learn and grow and study.
And I, over the last five years, it's been five years now, releasing an episode every week. I feel like I went from grasping and hoping, to learning those tools that I needed. And now I can teach those things and what's working and the principles that have made a big difference in my life.
But that is kind of the overall progression. And so I would say it was accidental that I ended up here. I had been very intentional about continuing to learn and grow, but I didn't start this as an intentional business. I didn’t know that people use podcasts for business purposes, to be honest.
Joshua Boswell: Awesome. So, I want to go back to… just for a moment. To me, it seems like… I mean, I think motherhood has always been hard. I mean, through the history of mankind, motherhood's tough. And carrying children, being pregnant, giving birth, the after-birth mentality and emotions and hormones. I mean, all of that stuff, it's always been hard.
But I've noticed that there seems to be, at least… and I don't have a pew study on this, but it seems to me to be that we have sort of a generational gap of moms coming from the early 1900s, 1950s of just, This is just what we do and you've got a duty and you just live it and you breath and die it. I don't know that my grandma, as an example, would have ever been like, I'm just miserable and bored and that's no derogatory term to you.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: I just see that there's a shift in society. And so, I wonder if you have any insight on where that shift is coming from? Because you felt yourself in the middle of it, and to be honest, I mean… we felt that, right?
Margie Boswell: Oh yeah.
Joshua Boswell: The only thing I ever wanted to do was to be a daddy. And I've had days where I've been like, Holy cow, this is brutal. So I sense that gap in myself. So what if you have insights on where that gap is coming from and kind of what shifted in society to create that?
Jessica Jackson: Yeah, there's lots of factors. I think the first one is, if we're comparing 1900's life to now…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: We, thanks to all of the wonderful inventions, it doesn't take that long to do laundry, doesn't take that long to do dishes. It doesn't have to take that long to make dinner. I mean, it can take time. It can take as much time as you want, but it doesn't have to.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And so I think there's all of a sudden we have this available time that maybe people in the 1900s didn't have. So we have time to do things with that and the hard part and the wonderful part about that is, now we have to make choices and decisions.
And so, I would say my number one, most important thing, if I can jump ahead for a second, would be creating a vision. I believe every mom or husband or family, marriage, couple… all these levels need a vision for their life, to know what they want to do with their time and energy. Because now, we have so many options, the options are endless.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And I think then you add on a layer of Social media, and being able to peek into people's worlds, and now you see all of the options, right? And you see everyone's best options compared to what you're living, which is reality. And then I think to add another layer onto that, because we are so immersed in, Get whatever you want, Get it now… It makes it really uncomfortable to work with people that are never going to be fast, efficient or exactly what you want them to be, right? And so, we've been conditioned, I think just habitually, to want things to be easy. And that was never the intention for it to be easy.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And so, I think part of it too, is this societal expectation that this should be easy and should be efficient. And we should be able to make things easy and efficient and managed. And that is not what family life is.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Jessica Jackson: And so I think when we can recalibrate those expectations, like, Oh. I'm going to have to learn patience in this process.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Because that's what the point is, right? That's part of the problem.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, I love…
Margie Boswell: That’s great insights.
Joshua Boswell: It's a fabulous insight. And what I love about what you're saying here is, I think a lot of moms, especially, walk around with all these A, choices and B, expectations, and C, I think that there's a very real… I don’t know how to say it, but at least in my perspective, in society there's a lot of, You shouldn't be a mom. You should be something else, but Mom is a sort of thing…
Margie Boswell: A lower class.
Joshua Boswell: The cartoons, and there's a lot of media that's not really in favor of just, Hey, I'm gonna be a mom, and that's a cool thing, and I should wear that as a badge of honor. And so, I think that these moms come into this world with all these expectations and pressures and total unrealistic comparisons, because of social media. And so the day starts out in massive guilt and frustration.
And it's like… I can't be the super person. I can't do it all. And I think there's another aspect that I've noticed, and that is just a sense of, If I'm a good mom, then my children will do everything. They'll be in all the piano lessons and all the music things, and all the sports and all the… I think there's a huge list of what it means to be a good mom. And if you're not doing all that stuff and you can't afford all of it, clearly you're a loser.
And I think that a lot of moms feel that way. So I love what you're saying. It's like, Oh! Easy was not the point. The point was I get to learn patience. I get to learn management. I get to learn all these skills and grow myself, while I'm working with these things. I also love that this comment about efficiencies coming from this engineer, right? Like, you've got this engineering, efficiency background.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah well, I would say I'm a technology and engineering educator. So I don't have a hard engineering background but yeah… I did teach it at middle school and high school level. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: There you go. Well… so yeah, beautiful. Thank you for that, and what I would like for our listeners to hear is like, Take the pressure off. We need to take some of the pressure off and the guilt, and start being more efficient so that we can get stuff done.
It's okay to go through the learning thing. You're not a bad person because you're needing to learn and grow, right?
Margie Boswell: Well and to have a vision so that we can clearly see where we want to go.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: That’s exactly right.
Margie Boswell: And figure out a path to get to that vision.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Okay, we'll dive into that. Let's go deeper into that real quick. Okay, so our key question is: What do you see as a core principle for creating happy families? So that's my first question, then we'll dive more into…
Margie Boswell: I think that’s what she was already saying…
Joshua Boswell: Oh you're one step ahead of me.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah, so that’s it. I think it's creating that vision. Because what I found is that once I could start writing down on paper… and I think the first time I did this was 2015, 2016? So a couple years into this process of motherhood.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: All of a sudden it helped me see what direction I wanted to go. And I think a lot of time vision in this world could be like, Oh I want to worldschool, or I want to do something really big and grand… And those are great too. But really what it is is, when we can just say on paper what it is that we want to do. And it might be to get better at her laundry. It might be to start a little family tradition. It might be to improve how morning routines are going with your kids, whatever it is. When you write it down on paper, you chose it.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: So that does a couple of things. One, you’re no longer a victim to the situation, right? You're being proactive. Two, it's something that you can get excited about. I don't want any… You know, when I say, Write a vision, it's like not you that you should be doing these things. What do you want to do right now?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Because we all have different things that we're drawn to at this moment. And it can have home management stuff on it, and it can have stuff that you're interested in, on it. It can be, a wide variety of things. And then it also helps you know what to say yes to and no to. And for me, I kind of structure my whole life based on this vision, so it's incorporated into my weeks. But it's so easy just to get caught up like you were saying, going to all the things for our kids all the time and filling your schedule up. I have… we have done very few extracurriculars for our kids because why? It doesn't fit in my vision.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: I don't envision myself as a taxi driver.
Joshua Boswell: Right!
Jessica Jackson: And it's fine if you do, it's totally fine if that's important to you. Because I think we have different kids and different families and different talents. And so it's going to be so unique. But I think we need to really lean in and listen. And for me, it's prayerful. I connect with God, and I try and bring God into, What does this vision look like for me? And I bring in my children, and my husband… But we can get excited! When we have something to get excited about, it's also a lot easier to do those day-to-day things that just have to get done right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Like, it's a lot easier to do dishes when you've got a project that you're working on that you're so excited about that is tied to your vision. And so, I just think… for me, I have found the most joy and confidence in my motherhood because I love my life now. Like, I really do. I homeschool my kids and I wouldn't have any other way. I love spending the days with them. But it's because year after year, I've refined that vision and taken the baby steps to make things just a little bit better and a little bit better and a little bit better.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And to create a life that I really, truly, honestly love. And it doesn't look like anybody else’s, and it’s not supposed to. And so that is just a practice that I think… and a skill that I think all moms and husbands, families really need to learn.
Margie Boswell: Mm-hm
Joshua Boswell: I love what you're saying.
Margie Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: Remember Montana when we came across this…? We started having awareness of what you're saying. We didn't articulate it as good as you're doing here. But remember Montana and the T-ball thing?
Margie Boswell: Yeah, we had our kids in T-ball, violin lessons, ballet. We were like you said, taxi driving everywhere and we took a step back and said, Is this really what we want our life to be like? Ya know? We want to have these accomplished children that can do everything and then it reflects on us that we're such great parents. But we realized, you know, what we really wanted was, we want to have them home with us. We want to build relationships. We want to have love and connection. And so we like took a step waaay back and said, We are gonna have extra curricular in our front yard and play together.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: And just spend that time together building the relationships and doing things that really matter most…
Joshua Boswell: To us.
Margie Boswell: To us, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And I think like what you're saying is that, there's nothing inherently wrong in those things, but does it fit in the vision? And we wanted to have… We had five…?
Margie Boswell: Five almost six.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, almost six children at the time, and we just started doing the math. It's like, Okay well… if we end up having eight or nine or 10 or 11 children, and you start figuring it out… It just didn't fit where we needed to go as a family. And I think that's the essential thing that you're talking about here Jessica.
It’s that we need to sit down and say, Okay, what do I want to accomplish? What does God want me to accomplish? And what I want for my family? Now let's craft everything else after that. And even for us, it's like, that transformed… And I loved what you said. It's like doing the dishes got transformed.
Because now, if I want to teach my children life skills, that's part of our vision, then pulling them up to the sink with me and having them do dishes with me and teaching them as I go. Now this is fun. Because this is in harmony with what my vision is, right? Even if they do it wrong!
Jessica Jackson: Especially when they do it wrong! Who cares? It's the habit, it's the habit. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Jessica Jackson: It's the habit, it's the habit. Yeah.
Margie Boswell: So great. Love it.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, so you talked about putting that down on paper, and writing that out, and creating that vision. And so I wanted to visit just a little bit about what you found… Because you went through a multi-year process of creating that vision. Like you said, just a little refinement, a little refinement.
I'm assuming you learned some cool steps along the way. And so I'd love to hear a better insight in your process of creating that vision. Because I think a lot of times, parents are like, Yeah… I should have a vision… Like, Okay, Vision is: Be a good person. Or: Be a good mom. Now what do I do?
So there's got to be some more particulars there. So maybe you could share with us some of the steps that you have used, that you’ve found helpful in that journey.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. So if you're just getting started, don't be overwhelmed. You can just sit down and write down, What do I want to do this year? What projects do I want to accomplish? Who do I want to be in my different life roles? What experiences do I want my family to have?
If you're feeling overwhelmed and you just want to get started, answering those questions are excellent. I do it every single year, because I feel like that's about as far as I can go at best guessing at what our life is gonna be like. And more than that is really challenging. And I know people say like, Who do you want to be in 80 years, or 5 years? And I think that's fun, but it's not quite as tangible.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And so… You can write down the project you want to accomplish, kind of those things. I actually now have this planner, that you mentioned, has a whole “Create your Vision" section. And so I have multiple, I think there’s like 23 pages now of exercises that I go through, and just spend a few weeks working on this process.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Jessica Jackson: And basically what I'm doing, I always start with reflecting and reviewing on the previous year or previous chunk of time. It doesn't really matter when you do this. It does not have to be in January. It's whenever you decide to start. Sometimes I do it in July because that's just how it flows for my family. So I don't even follow the January calendar, and I sell a planner that starts in January. I just do it when I can.
But with that, you start by reflecting and reviewing the previous year, because what you do if… You know, you're past the diaper bag stage. But for those of you that can relate to diaper bags, they just fill up, and compact, and add… until you're like, What smells in here? And I can't fit in things that should fit, right?
And so then you take it all out, throw most of it away, save the few precious things, and now you can keep going. And so I like to do that every year. Just kind of take all of these thoughts, all of these things out of the diaper bag, refresh, and then make space for something new. So that I've got space to now think and imagine what I possibly want to do.
And then all the other questions that I ask, it's like looking at, What are your goals? What's important to you? What are the different roles you have in your life? How do you want to show up to the different roles and responsibilities you have? What kind of things do you want to have, building a strong family, experiences? What do your kids need?
But just kind of look at this big list of things that you don't have to make them part of your vision, but I just like to pull them out once a year and examine them. And review them. And then take all of that data and say, Okay what am I feeling drawn to? What do I feel like isn't on my heart? What does God want me to do right now? What am I most excited about right now?
And then pick a few of those things that I kind of… you know, the pieces of gold in all of that mining and excavating that I did, and put that together as the vision for the year. And then, from there, I choose for the next 90 days, so, three quarters. Because that's actually all you can plan and think about.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
Jessica Jackson: And say, Okay, from my vision, what are the projects, goals, habits, family systems that we're going to focus on for the next 90 days? And I go from there. So that's kind of what I do. I’m not like… My vision isn't like a list of goals. It's a nice idea that I'm gonna work on in 90 day chunks.
Joshua Boswell: Amazing.
Joshua Boswell: That's awesome, so much more tangible. So it's not this ethereal idea out there. It’s, This is how I'm going to get there. These are the steps. That's great.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah, when I will say the first year I did it, it was like… you know, I have had horrible eyesight since I've been in kindergarten, so it's like no glasses, right? You just get started, or you go into a dark tunnel and the first few steps of the dark tunnel you have nothing. You can see nothing.
And if it's the first year or two that you're doing this, you might feel like you're walking into a dark tunnel and you're just taking steps. I will say, now that I've been doing this exercise, for five, six, seven years, I don't know. A long time. That is getting clearer and clearer. And I'm seeing the light, and it's starting to become something that… I'm making little tweaks, too, and it's becoming more tangible.
But I think the point is, you just have to pick something and get started. Even if you don't feel like it's the perfect thing, or it's not your passion, or it's not your life's mission… it doesn't matter. Just pick something and get started. Because it's that momentum and that moving forward on something that's going to give you information. That's going to help you get excited about your life.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: So great. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, can I ask you a couple of questions on that?
Jessica Jackson: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: Actually I have two questions. One is the tangible reality of that. I mean… You're a mother. You've got young children. So for you personally, do you like peel off some time in the evening? Do you wake up early in the morning? Do you put them all in front of the TV or a movie in the middle of the afternoon and steal some time? Like… What does that functionally look like for you to peel that time off?
Because here it's like you've got 23 pages of exercises that you’ve eventually built up, which is awesome. And then you work through those in two to three week chunks. So, what does that show up like tangibly in your life?
Jessica Jackson: I read through a page, I know what the questions are, and then when I'm washing dishes or I'm taking a shower, I get answers and I go write them down.
Joshua Boswell: Perfect.
Jessica Jackson: It's very organic. I think one of the keys here is that I choose not to fill every minute with listening to something or watching something.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And so, when you take out all of that possible input and leave space for just quiet in your everyday life, there's lots of time to think and ponder and then I jot stuff down. And does that mean that there's water splatters in my planner? Yes. Yes, there are…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, totally.
Jessica Jackson: That's okay, that's the point.
Margie Boswell: That’s awesome.
Joshua Boswell: I love that, we… a couple years ago, Margie and I did a five-day retreat in Spain. It was like a spiritual retreat.
Jessica Jackson: Sounds amazing.
Margie Boswell: Yeah it was great.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah well, we were actually there 10 days, it was five days of just solo, by ourselves. But one of the key things… we fasted for those five days, water only. And camped out in the mountains by ourselves. But the key thing there was no input. So we could bring a journal for output. But the only input was between us and God.
Margie Boswell: Us and God.
Joshua Boswell: So no books to read, no electronic devices. No nothing. And obviously you can't do that every day. But what you're saying here is so incredibly true. I think, going back to our grandparents and the early 1900s… One of the things is their life was not cluttered with a million and one different things.
They didn't feel drawn to always have to check their social media feed. They didn't feel like they had to be up on the latest bit of news. They didn't feel like… you know. There was space there, which I think was really valuable.
And that I love that you're giving yourself permission to not fill your life with a whole bunch of input. It's so powerful, Jessica. That’s incredible.
Margie Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: So, my second question for you is, one of the things that I've been mildly obsessed with over the years, is studying various personality types.
And we've noticed that even though we have… I mean, the genetic mix between us should pick out children about… similar… similar to us, right?
Margie Boswell: Like us!
Jessica Jackson: Right, that’s how it works!
Joshua Boswell: But what we’ve found is… and only not similar to us, but we have children... I think genetically, if you look out and you’ll say, Oh yeah, you can tell all 11 of those, those are your children. Okay, great. But personality wise, habit wise, thinking wise… Wow, these are 11 completely unique individuals.
So, I've been very interested in personalities and what makes people tick and how we're wired. And in my perspective, some people are wired to just be kind of organized, and some people are wired to be not organized at all. And then there's all the different kinds in between.
I wonder what insights you would have for the person on that far end of the, I don’t think meticulously, I don't think organized, like… I think parties and fun and social and everything else can just fall apart. That's fine with me.
So I wonder… but then there's moments where it’s like, I can't live this way. I mean I know this. I'm speaking from experience because I am one, but I just wondered if you have insights on creating this vision and using this time, for those people who are on the end of the spectrum of not… don't feel like they're organized or meticulous at all.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah. So I don't think I am the organized meticulous type either. I think I am the… I a lot of people in my life now and so I don't want to drown every day.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
Jessica Jackson: So the really cool thing is, I've got people that have been using the planner for years, that… One, she creates her vision and then just having done the work of creating it is enough to direct your days. She's not often going back and using the planner all the time, like… just knowing that she did, kind of knows what’s important… That was enough for her. And she has a great year. She feels good about it. And every 30 days, we always write down the things you learned, accomplished, experienced, went… Things you read. That's built into the system because it keeps momentum going. You feel good.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: You stop saying that lie of like, “All I do is…” So she does like that in her planner for the most part and that's great. And she creates an amazing life that way.
I have other moms that are more on the other end of the spectrum. That it's like, they create it, they carry the planner with them all day long. They are living by it, right? So the point here is you… it’s adaptable.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Like, whatever your personality is, it's adaptable. The point is that you have…. Here I'll tell the point of this vision is, you know where you're going.
So, when I was in high school we moved to Iowa and a lot of our friends lived in these farm fields. And so my mom would give us… because this is before we had cell phones with GPS. And so my mom would give us a sticky note on the steering wheel on our stick shift, and say like, Okay, this is how you get to so and so’s house. Please go pick up your brother.
And the instructions are to drive out to the cornfield, past this sign, turn right at the silo, turn left… I mean just complete landmarks. And so I picked up my brother one day. We made it there, but on the way back, we got turned around with the directions. And so we called her mom on the old cell phones and we’re like, Okay we have no clue where we are.
She’s like, all right, where's the sun? Like… What?! And so my brother and I, we’re like driving, she's like, where's the sun? We're looking out the window. And she's like, Okay, keep it on this side of the car until you get back to town.
Joshua Boswell: Smart mama.
Jessica Jackson: And she’s like, Okay… she's amazing. But she stayed on the phone with us, right? And we found our way out of this cornfield by the sun. And so that's really what your vision does. It's not saying like, step one, step two, step three. It's just keeping you going in the right direction.
And there's tons of room for flexibility. Roadblocks, new information, change of plans. But you just want something to keep you going in the direction… something that you can wake up and be excited about.
Joshua Boswell: Awesome. So…
Margie Boswell: Love that. So great.
Joshua Boswell: I think that a challenge that people have, again… these expectations that they have. It's like, Well… there's these planners. And of course, one thing I love about your perspective and why I'm so excited that we’re having this conversation is, like you, I've been through David Allen stuff and Brendon Burchard and…
Jessica Jackson: Yes, I have those.
Joshua Boswell: Michael Hyatt…
Jessica Jackson: Yes. Yes.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Hyatt and I have had dinner together on a couple occasions and… chatted through his fabulous system. And I look at that and I’m like… somebody shoot me. I just… wow. I cannot
Jessica Jackson: Are you kidding? If I didn't have kids, I would buy his planner in a heartbeat. It looks amazing.
Joshua Boswell: I know I love it and it's great. But Michael Hyatt… he's awesome.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: But my brain,… my brain trips out on that. And what I have found, like you, is that if I have these guiding stars, these landmarks, these places to go… It's really powerful, because I'm very much purpose, very much ideal, very much project driven. And very much not task driven. And Margie’s the other… Margie’s the opposite. You look at her planner, and Margie just… she's got a day and it's articulated, and she checks that thing every day and it works for her, it's amazing. And uh…
Margie Boswell: You do what you can do! However your brain works.
Jessica Jackson: That's right. That's right.
Joshua Boswell: Right. So that’s how Margie… But here's the thing that I want to see is that your system and what you're talking about is not designed to take somebody and mold them into the system. It's designed to be a resource and a help. Very cool.
Jessica Jackson: Absolutely. Yeah, I just want the principles to be accessible and then you scale the principles to fit your life.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Cool.
Margie Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: You said a phrase that I wanted to go back to really quick. You said, well, the “all I do is…” mentality. Can you elaborate on that? Tell us where you're going with that.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah, so I found as a mom and… whether I'm thinking it or someone saying it to me, “all I do is run my kids around.” “All I do is change diapers.” “All I do is the laundry.” “All I do is the dishes.” All… you know? And we just tell ourselves these things and we forget the hundred other things that actually happened that day, right? We just whittle it down to nothing.
And so this became really poignant. I heard of this exercise, I was probably listening to some podcast. It might have been with Brendon Burchard talking about coaching Oprah Winfrey or something.
Joshua Boswell: Something.
Jessica Jackson: But it was back in 2017. So it was a while ago, I'm not quite sure on the source, but…
And they mentioned that some of these really top, successful people are just feeling so horrible. And what they suggested was, sit down and write out what you did over the last 30 days. And they felt amazing after doing that.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Like… Well that seems interesting. So I was pregnant with my third. I was so sick. I could barely walk. My pelvis separates, I was so sick, nauseous, on the couch. And so what I'd been telling myself is, All I do is lay on this couch and barely live and survive. And so after just being so depressed, I hauled my two kids out onto our tiny little porch, and myself. And I gave them crayons, and I pulled out my, then notebook, now planner.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And wrote down what I had done. And I had to go two months, but I actually found that there were more things that I did, then I realized. And I left the exercise feeling awesome. And I have been doing it every 30 days since. And I always start… you’d think I’d learn, but I always start thinking like, Ahhh… things are not going well. And I leave going, I'm amazing.
Margie Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Look at all we're doing. I feel so good. And that's a really fun place to plan your next 30 days from, right? Because I think the other problem with parenting and our world is it can start feeling like a treadmill, and it never ends. And it's like you just go, go, go, go. And I feel like this really helps you pause and stop for a second and just celebrate what happens so that you can keep going. Because otherwise you just start draining out, getting burned out really fast.
Margie Boswell: Well there's so many tasks and motherhood that you just constantly are doing. That never stay fixed, you know? The laundry, the dishes, the fixing meals, the house cleaning. And so it's so easy for women, especially moms, to get into that mode of I'm not accomplishing a single thing, I'm just existing! You know?
Jessica Jackson: Right? Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So that's so great. Every 30 days. I love that, to reevaluate what you've done and then decide where you're gonna go from there. So good,…
Jessica Jackson: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, very powerful. And I like that treadmill... I mean, years ago I had to sort of flip the switch from destination mentality, to journey mentality, right? Like… parenting was not… and it's a challenge that we have in our society because everything's driven by either, instant fixed gratification…: I want something, I want to have this freedom to do whatever it is. Watch a movie, eat a burger, have a drink, Go do this activity, whatever it is. So I want that end destination right now.
Or we also live in a highly accomplishment oriented world. It's like I worked really hard and then I achieved… Tada! Whatever the big thing was. And so we sort of fall into this trap of thinking, Well, that's actually what life’s about. And it’s not.
I think we should go back to what you said earlier, Jessica. Where you’re like, No, the point was not accomplishing that thing, the point was, in your example, was to learn patience. You're becoming a more Godly, happier, amazing, better version of yourself. That's the point. Not the end destination, it's the journey.
Jessica Jackson: Well, and that's what I realized when I started Thriving In Motherhood, it turned out to be a great thing…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: because thriving is growing.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Exactly.
Jessica Jackson: And what do plants need to grow? They need rainstorms and they need sun, they need like… it's not easy to be a plant. But growth happens, right? And the fruit happens.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Jessica Jackson: And so, yeah, that's exactly right. It's about becoming something.
Joshua Boswell: It is about becoming. It is. And the cool part about it is that every moment there is a destination and it's called joy. And that's one of the cool things that we get to experience. So… awesome.
Okay, so… I'm just watching the time here. I want to go back for just a second to this planning process. So we've got this 90 days and 30 days things. Any other practical tips and tricks that you have seen that works really well for you? Or these, thousands of other mothers that have jumped onto your bandwagon and are living happier lives because of it? So, we create the vision and then we've got these touch points… any other tangible, practical insights, you can offer for us?
Jessica Jackson: I have loads. I talk about this all the time. But I'll leave you with maybe one more to just start playing with.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Which is, plan your weeks and not your days. Because I found that in motherhood in particular, when you don't leave, or your kids… I homeschool, so I always have kids around me. And so if I try and plan out a day, it is very hard to guess what's gonna happen that day and be successful.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Especially when you have younger kids, this might change when kids are older, my oldest is 10 so you can…
Joshua Boswell: No, I just want to say, it's not. No.
Jessica Jackson: Okay great! We'll keep going then. But within a week,…
Joshua Boswell: It gets… just so you know. It gets more hectic. Just not to… you know. There you go.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah that's the inkling that I've had actually.
But what I've learned is that within a week, I can actually calibrate and check everything off on my list for a week.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: I can get pretty good at that every single week and it feels good to be able to have like, I'm done. I did it. Freshly every week.
And so kind of some of the tricks on that are, start by writing down the appointments that you have. Actual scheduled activities. And I have those in their own column. The next thing I write down are my day specific To Do's. And I only write down what actually has to happen that day. If it doesn't have to happen that day, I don't write it on that day, because I don't want to transfer it to the next day. That's so discouraging.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
Jessica Jackson: And then, I have a big three for the week, so I'm looking at my vision. This is where it gets really practical. So that vision that I created and I created my quarter from and then my month plan from, I'm looking every week at what I wanted to do that month, trickling down.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And picking, what are those three things that I want to work on that week? Now in a business application it's, What are the three things to generate revenue? For me, I want to have at least one of those things be something from my vision. The reality is, some things are probably practical like my daughter's birthday. That's gonna take time. Or if you're doing a fundraiser for school, that's gonna take time. You know? So it doesn't always have to be your vision, but you want to have that. What are those three big things you're gonna do during the week?
And then everything else I put in a context-based To Do. So, instead of having one long, never ending To Do list, I instead say, Okay… Here's the things that have to happen while I'm at home. Here's the things I have to do on the computer. Here are the phone calls I have to make. Here are the errands I have to run. And here are the things I need to talk about with people.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And when you break it up that way, then when you have a pocket of time, you're able to quickly identify. Instead of just going up and down the list and saying, Oh I don't know… what sounds fun? What should I do now? And then your moment ends.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Jessica Jackson: Instead you're saying, Oh everyone's quiet? I can make a phone call. And you just bust out your phone call list.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: Or, everyone needs to get out of the house? I need to get out of the house? Let's go run my errands and it's basically just batching all those tasks you have. So you can be really efficient when you sit down to do it. It's not about getting everything done, but it allows you to get a lot of things done so that you can focus on those things that really matter.
Joshua Boswell: I love it. Plan the week.
Joshua Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: So practical.
Joshua Boswell: Not the day.
Jessica Jackson: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah I like how you broke down planning out that week. It’s absolutely amazing. Okay, so yes, I know there's a ton more stuff that you could share with us And we want all of everyone in our world… we want them to have this.
Can you tell us a little bit about your planner and A, how to get hold of it? And B, do you have any other follow-up training courses that go along with that? Just give us… kind of step us into your world and give us a big picture of the planner ecosystem.
Jessica Jackson: Absolutely. So the Thriving In Motherhood planner is available at www.ThrivingInMotherhoodPodcast.com. You can go straight there or www.ThrivingInMotherhoodPodcast.com/planner. It’ll take you right to the page. I have the Plan A Week You Can Win training that goes deeper into all these things that I just shared with you. That's completely free at www.ThrivingInMotherhoodPodcast.com/MoreTime.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: And then I also have paid… If you have the planner, we have something called Soaring Mother Society where we meet every single month and actually do this monthly review process together.
Joshua Boswell: Oh cool.
Jessica Jackson: And we do it in small groups. It's not one of these massive groups. I do it… I have five people max at a time. So you get to talk, yourself. And explore what you review, and celebrate and so someone else besides you cares what you did, and you've got accountability to give you a little extra push to do stuff.
And then I have the Made To Soar next, it’s a 90 day program that just step-by-step goes in detail about all these time management and productivity things and systems that you need to build a family. Like… You know. The business stuff for your family.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: But in a way that has this grace and just… to find the joy in it, right? And to really thrive.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Jessica Jackson: It’s called Made To Soar. I believe that we were meant for more. We were made to soar, to feel like we can be soaring mothers. So that’s all. That’s everything.
Joshua Boswell: Love it. So we're gonna include links and all that stuff. And I just want to say that to me it's clear that you very carefully faced a lot of your own fears, a lot of your own frustrations, a lot of your own self doubts, a lot of your own like, Oh… I'm a terrible person.
And you have created a system meticulously that has worked for you and obviously works for a lot of people. There's so much wisdom in what you're talking about here. And Margie and I, again, we've never articulated it as beautifully as you have, right? But we see the value in it.
We've shared a few stories today but… You guys, anyone listening to this, there is a key component that I learned years ago, and that is, if the logistics of your life are out of balance, the things that really matter will never get in balance.
Jessica Jackson: I like that. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Right? So the emotional side of things, the spiritual side of things.
Margie Boswell: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Those things that we can't really touch and put our hands on. If the logistics are out of balance… You know, think about going to a conference. And in the conference center it is 90 degrees and the seats are hard. And you've got to sit there for four hours. You're not gonna pick up anything that happened at that conference.
The logistics are out of balance, so things that matter most and that really impact you cannot have an influence on you. And so what Jessica's talking about here, and what I love about what you shared is a very simple, graceful, beautiful way of having those things in balance.
So that the things that matter most… it's like, I love that because you've gotten organized on your vision and your weekly plan and all the different things, you're able to take those moments that really are important with your children.
Jessica Jackson: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: And you're able to find the joy in motherhood and thrive in motherhood. Because that's what it is actually all about. It really is. Thank you so much Jessica for spending your time with us today. Thank you so much for your insights, on your planner, and on your scheduling and everything. You're doing great work and we really appreciate it. So…
Jessica Jackson: Well thank you so much. I learned a lot just from listening to your stories as well today. So this has been an absolute delight.
Margie Boswell: Thank you!
Joshua Boswell: Well all right, we'll stay in touch and can't wait to collaborate more with you.
Jessica Jackson: Absolutely, thank you. Bye.
Joshua Boswell: All right, thank you so much Jessica, take care.