Podcast Transcript
Attendees:
Joshua Boswell, Margie Boswell, Elizabeth Saunder
Transcript:
Joshua Boswell: Welcome everybody! We are so excited to have you here at the Happy Family Club podcast. And today's guest is somebody who I am really… I've been waiting so long, she was on maternity leave and she's really busy and booked out and she's awesome. And our guest today helped me personally at a very critical time. Has it been two years ago? A year ago that we did 1-1 coaching?
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, it was a few years ago. Yeah,
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, it's been a couple years now, and it was really powerful. And so I've been anxiously awaiting the time to be able to interview Elizabeth and have her share all of her amazing stuff with you guys. So we're just delighted to have you here. And then we're gonna talk a little more about it but she's the author of three books. I could not find my other copy of the third one, but these two books right here, we'll talk a little bit more about them, but…
Margie Boswell: And her name is Elizabeth Grace Saunders. Gotta make sure people know who you are! He’s too excited!
Joshua Boswell: Oh yeah, Elizabeth Grace Saunders. So, Elizabeth, thank you for your time today. I know you're a new mom. You're an incredibly business successful entrepreneur and time management coach and life coach and just… you do so many great things. So thank you for taking time with us today. We really appreciate it.
Elizabeth Saunders: It's my delight. I am so happy to be here.
Joshua Boswell: Cool. Awesome
Margie Boswell: Thank you.
Joshua Boswell: And we could talk about all kinds of accolades. But there's one quote on the back of the book here that I thought was so awesome. And so she says “From the very phrase divine time management, you know this book is something special. Direct, powerful, easy to implement, Elizabeth has a key ingredient for your success right here.” That's from Chris Brogan and then there's a bunch of other cool quotes, but this is one of my favorite books. So divine time management, like thank Heavens that someone has taken the principles of the Lord teaches us and put it into a system to better our life. And that's you, Elizabeth. So thank you so much.
Margie Boswell: Yes!
Elizabeth Saunders: My pleasure, my pleasure. I'm learning right along with everyone else and it's a joy to share what I’m learning. Absolutely.
Joshua Boswell: So I want to ask you the question that we asked all of our experts and that is about what makes for a happier family. What's a key principle there? And we'll talk about some specifics, but I really wanted to dig in a little bit to your background.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Because I think that if I remember right, on your bio on your website, you talk about being sort of an accidental entrepreneur.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: I was like, you got a cool story about how it happened. So, can you share that backstory with this real quick?
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, absolutely. I would be delighted to. So I actually never thought it would be an entrepreneur. I was not someone who thought that that was in my future. I actually loved the corporate world. I thought cubicles were great. I was all about just straight line, do the corporate thing and all of that. But what happened is that I'm a person of faith, and God had other plans. And He knew what would actually be good for me, even though I thought I knew what was good for myself. And I had kind of a divine setup that at first didn't seem good, but led me on the journey. And I got my first corporate job before I even graduated from college. So February of my senior year of college. And then six weeks later I got laid off.
Joshua Boswell: Oh my.
Elizabeth Saunders: And it was a huge wake up call. It was like, what? I have a severance package before I even have a college diploma?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And it all worked out, and the company that laid me off hired me back five months later and all of that. But it really shifted something in my brain from feeling like, Oh being in the corporate world is secure and stable and all that to be like, uhhh…. Yeah. I don't know about this, and I don't know how loyal I'm gonna be to any one company. And so then fast forward about a year after I got hired back by that company, I was just in a position that wasn't a good fit. I'd always gotten along really well with bosses and had been voted teachers pet in high school. So I mean clearly I'm someone that doesn't typically have problems with authority.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And my boss and I just were not a good fit at all. And I prayed about it and just felt like God was telling me to apply to new jobs, but then resigning my one year anniversary regardless of whether I had a new job. And since I was very security conscious, I really liked the apply for new jobs part. I hated the resign on your one year anniversary part. But I am a person, again, of faith and I really believe that when you follow God it's no risk at all. And so I didn't as He said and I had seven interviews set up within two weeks and I was like, Great! I'm great at interviews. Everything will go wonderful. But what ended up happening was I did this the seven interviews, I resigned, and I got none of the jobs I interviewed for.
Joshua Boswell: No way
Elizabeth Saunders: I was like, uhhh…. God? Hey, that's not how this is supposed to work.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: I took a step of Faith. I gave you yours, you give me mine.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And what He did is he tricked me into being an entrepreneur. So I was in the magazine journalism industry at the time and just had a bunch of contacts in that world. And they said Elizabeth, you don't have a job right now. Would you take on this freelance work?
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so without me really having any intention behind it, I started a business on October 3rd of 2005 and that was over 18 years ago now. And I just haven't looked back. So I began just in that world with the context I had, the things I was doing and built it up through networking and that sort of thing. And then how I became a time management coach, if people are like, wait you were journalism… Like?
Joshua Boswell: Journalism time management, right?
Elizabeth Saunders: That's not the same thing at all! So what happened was, again, pretty much by “accident” though. It's God's leading.
Joshua Boswell: God's hand.
Elizabeth Saunders: I was in my magazine journalism business, but didn't have any sort of boundaries. I had fallen into it, I didn't have any sense of when am I starting work, when I'm stopping work, am I working just during the week of my working on the weekends.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: I never was quite strict with myself about when I was working, but then I never felt like it could stop working. And I always had this sense of guilt.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Even if it's ten o'clock at night, should you answer a business email? Or it's the weekend, should I be doing work now?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And after a few years of that, I just didn't feel successful. So even though I had all these great contracts and I was enjoying what I was doing, I was like, if I can't ever stop working without feeling guilty, this is not success to me.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so I started to figure out okay, how do I set boundaries? How do I plan my time? How do I do things so I don't have to work at night or on the weekends? And really got myself much better structured at night where I could take time off at night, where I could take time off on the weekend and not feel guilty and not feel anxious. And my entrepreneur friends were like, this is amazing. We have successful businesses, but we're stressed out all the time.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: You should help other people! And again, it's funny because I didn’t want to be a coach. I was super hesitant about it, coaching was I guess getting big at that time. This was 2009 and I was like so many people have so much more experience than I do. Can I really have a place in the market? But I decided, you know what, I'll just give it a try. People want me to do this. And I really decided to also focus on a niche. So I was like, there's no way I can compete with executive coaches that are 20 years older than me.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: I'm not gonna try to be a business coach. I haven't been in business that long and I said, I'm just gonna be a time management coach. And so that's what I've done since 2009.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Elizabeth Saunders: So it's been 14 years now and just continue to be laser sharp focused on doing this well and trying to be the best in the world at that particular niche and it's worked well for me.
Margie Boswell: Wow.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, very well and you've helped so many people, it's been absolutely incredible.
Margie Boswell: Amazing.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah. Thank you.
Joshua Boswell: And again, I have a little bit of an insight in there, just because I'm one of them, right?
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So tell us about… and I don't know which book came about first. I don't know the sequence of your books. So tell us about that really quick.
Elizabeth Saunders: I'd be happy to.
Joshua Boswell: And if there's a backstory behind each one, just thirty seconds. I got a bunch more questions to ask you. I’d love to hear the story.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, of course. I'm happy to share the backstory. So the first book is The Three Secrets To Effective Time Investment and you'll sense the theme that God often is like, I know something will be good for you. And I don't want to do it, but then it ends up being good.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: So again, I was very nervous about writing a book, trying to have a publisher. So that book did end up getting published by McGraw Hill in 2012.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: I had been a time management coach about three years and just really felt like it was put on my heart, I was supposed to work on it. But I was terrified of rejection. I was like, why are they gonna publish my book or want to work with me?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: But I persisted and I was so blessed and so grateful that I got a book agent who believed in me. And again what God did, I give Him all glory for that book. I'd written the proposal I actually thought I had been rejected by everyone and that book wasn't going to get published. I had this conversation with my agent.
Then after he had that conversation with me he was like, Well, let me just follow up. And so he followed up with an editor at McGraw-Hill who had been out of the office and she said, Oh, actually I think I am interested, I want to learn more. The same time, God had it where an article that had been rejected by a different website was accepted by Harvard Business review. It had been delayed for months.
It got published in the exact same week that the agent was thinking about taking my book as a book that she would publish, and it went viral. It was like the top article on Harvard Business review and all over the place. And so they gave me the book publishing contract, and I published my first book.
Joshua Boswell: Yay!
Elizabeth Saunders: But it was literally like this crazy thing where there's so many delays and…
Joshua Boswell: So many things…
Elizabeth Saunders: …so much rejection, and I thought it wasn’t gonna work. And it was like, but I really felt like God wanted me to do this… and then it all came together. So The Three Secrets To Effective Time Investment is my first book baby and that is a comprehensive look at lasting behavioral change with your time management.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Elizabeth Saunders: And it's not so revolutionary now, but at the time, one of the things that made that book really different when it came out in 2012 was I talked a lot about the emotional and mental part of time management.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Elizabeth Saunders: And that was 11 years ago now, and so many people are only focusing on the left brain. Like, just…
Joshua Boswell: All the logistics.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah and they weren't thinking about the guilt or the anxiety or the shame. And so yeah, so that was that. My second book, How To Invest Your Time Like Money was published by Harvard Business review and that was based off of a really popular blog post that I wrote with them. And the reason why you don't have a hard copy is that they actually published it in ebook.
Joshua Boswell: OH! Okay.
Elizabeth Saunders: So you're not missing anything. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: I was like, I've read this book. I have it somewhere else. I was going crazy.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, and that is looking kind of at a deep dive of comparing your time investment you like financial investment.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Really looking at your time is like a portfolio.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And how can you get the best ROI. And then my third book, Divine Time Management, again, that was very God prompted. And what happened there… and this might be interesting to people who have been entrepreneurs for a while. I had been a time management coach, I think for about six-seven years at that point and I was feeling like I was losing my spark. I mean I was doing well, things were fine. But when you start to feel listless, just seeing the same thing all the time. Does this really matter? That sort of thing.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so I was just trying to be open and seeking God. Like, am I on the right track? Should I be doing something else? Should I completely abandon time management? And I always feel like you need to hold everything really loosely. And so I was just not quite sure what was right for me. And what I felt God telling me was, You need to be honest about how your life really works. And He said yes, it's true that you do plan and you do prioritize you do set expectations. You do set boundaries, but ultimately how things really work is because I am working in your life. And that is really why it works.
And so He just opened the door through Divine time management to share more fully the picture of how my life flows and how it comes together. And also encourage people to step into that. And so what I say is my first two books are helping type B people be more type A. My Divine time management is helping type A people chill out. And so for me that was a much harder book to write.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Because I'm type A. So I literally just shed tears over that book, just repenting of ways where I felt that my heart was not in alignment with God's heart. In terms of surrendering to Him and not focusing on being in control of everything and all of that. So very different books, but all in my opinion very good, and helping people to just really live a fulfilling and rich life for themselves and obviously for their families.
Joshua Boswell: Here's what I love about your approach, and you've touched on a lot of things here. But what I love about the approach is that this is not about how can I manage my time so I can climb some corporate ladder or something and hit some pinnacle of success. It's about how do I have fulfillment? How do I connect with loved ones? How do I connect with God? How do I…? You know, and it's really about becoming this amazing human and this amazing child of God. And recognizing that we all have 24 hours a day. So, how are we going to use that and be wise stewards of that and how are you going to effectively use that?
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: I love that approach and it is so refreshing in the world because I deal with a lot of business people and a lot of business people have this phrase of “do whatever it takes.”
Margie Boswell: Sacrifice anything.
Joshua Boswell: It’s like, I'm gonna sacrifice anything and everything. And you are so… you're on the opposite end of that spectrum.
Margie Boswell: Love that.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: It's so powerful. It really is powerful.
Elizabeth Saunders: Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, and I guess I try to see myself as the balance. Because like you said, there are people that are like, Sacrifice everything, No pain, no gain. And then also right about the time I started out with time management coaching, that was when The Four Hour Work Week came out with Tim Ferris.
Joshua Boswell: Oh yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: So there's also the opposite of you shouldn't have to work at all or do anything.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And I'm kind of like the realist in the center. Most of us have to work more than four hours a week and some people only have to, but most of us do. So, how can we not be totally stressed out and overwhelmed, but also be responsible human beings? So there you go.
Margie Boswell: That’s great. Yes.
Joshua Boswell: It's a great explanation. I love it. Let's talk for just a minute about how this ties into family life. I mean, you're a new mom...
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And you've coached people like me that have big families and small families and everything. You've seen, you've been in the hearts and minds of just thousands of people, and so it'd be cool to see your perspective on what are some key principles that really make for happier families and stronger family relationships.
Elizabeth Saunders: I would be so delighted to share.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Elizabeth Saunders: And you are right. I have for many many years worked with people who have children and found my work to be extremely helpful. One of the key reasons why a lot of people choose to work with me is they want more time with their family. Like… they're feeling like the years are going by and they're missing moments with their kids or not able to connect with their spouse or any of those sorts of things.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: So often it's relationship pain that brings people into recognizing, Wow. I need to do something different with my time management.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: So in terms of how this works with family life, there's I think a couple different ways to look at it. So one is, you can't give someone what you do not have.
Joshua Boswell: Hmm.
Elizabeth Saunders: And I heard… actually I was in a small group and someone said this and they said basically for example, maybe you want to be really generous with money. Like you see someone either struggling or maybe there's a great cause that you believe in and you want to be generous. But if you're completely broke and in debt or all having all these money issues, like… you can't give them what you don't have.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: And the same is true with our time. And so I think as parents, in terms of being able to create an environment that's good for our children and good for overall family, we need to have time to give to our family.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And that means that self-management of our time and making sure that whatever we're doing for work or whatever we need to do to have things in order in our home, we're taking care of that ourselves first.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And then from that outflow, we will have time to give to others. So if your work is completely out of control, you're having to work till midnight every night, you're not able to take care of your health, you're not sleeping, you're working on the weekends like… You're just not going to be as great a member of your family and leader of your family as a husband or wife as you will be if you have that in order. And then you have the capacity both physically, mentally and emotionally to give to those around you.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Elizabeth Saunders: So I really think you kind of need to start first with yourself and really look at where you're at. But then secondly, obviously time management is HUGE for creating a happy family life for everyone. And that's a balance between routines and then planning. So in terms of routines, and you have a very large family you guys are all about routines and got about that all down. But basically for families where maybe they don't have routines, they're wondering, Well, do we really need them or Why is it important? Why it’s important is that you can get so much done and so much less time when there's no questions about what's happening.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Elizabeth Saunders: So it's like, if everyone knows, this is when we're getting up or this is when we're eating breakfast and this is the flow of the day like this is when we go to school or this is when we start at home schooling or this is when mom or dad goes to work out. Like whatever it is. Like if you have that established, you eliminate millions of decisions that you need to make it throughout the day.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And you can also keep everyone on course and on track because everyone's like, Oh, this is when we’re eating breakfast or this is when we're doing school. And it eliminates the, what do we do now? I don't know! And having to think about it, decide and communicate that out.
So routines are critical. And then also the planning on top of that helps you anticipate things. So they're not stressful. And one thing I really encourage people to do with their spouse is to have some kind of weekly planning time.
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm
Elizabeth Saunders: Where you’re talking about what's coming up over the next seven days. So that could be like who's driving which kids where, that could be what food is getting eaten, that could be talking about, oh there's this birthday party coming up, like who's going and who's getting the gift and what's happening.
But just thinking through things in advance can mean a whole lot of things are not stressful. Versus if it's the day of or the afternoon of and you didn’t realize you were supposed to pick up a kid from a soccer game and you have to reschedule something. Or you're going to a birthday party and no one bought the present. All of the sudden all these things that didn't need to be a big deal are a big deal.
Margie Boswell: Mmm-hm.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so those two elements, the routines and the planning are just so critical to fit family life. And then now with me being a mom and having a baby girl layered on top of that is just the flexibility. Because I have found that it's like… Yes, I have routines. Yes I have plans. And then Lila has her ideas around what's gonna happen or not happen and how things are going to go. And so you have to also have that race to really stay focused on what matters and what's most important and recognizing you're not going to get as much done as you would if you didn't have a little person here. And that's okay. A big part of the whole process is that you have enough order that you can have that flex for whatever happens or comes up throughout the day.
Joshua Boswell: Nice, I'm jotting down some notes and some questions.
Margie Boswell: I love that.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, for sure.
Margie Boswell: Flexibility, planning and routines. Oh my goodness, those are great points.
Joshua Boswell: So I have a couple follow questions for you on that.
Elizabeth Saunders: For sure.
Joshua Boswell: So one of the things that I have seen in myself and others is the transition moment. So even when there's routines… And you talked about when you first got started as an entrepreneur. It was just all over the place, 10 o'clock at night, 5 in the morning.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And these transition periods, and being able to go from disconnecting from work and engaging with family and engaging with family and going to connect with God and maybe Church responsibilities and then shift. And I think a lot of times we consume a lot of time and energy in transition. And I wonder what your insights are in terms of how to get ourselves to more effectively move from these key priorities in our life. Because we all have multiple things that grab our attention.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I think there's managing transitions on a macro level and then more on a micro level.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: So on a macro level… as I've discovered, when you have children, you're constantly and transition.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: I have these beautiful little routines and then Lila sleep schedule changes, or all the sudden she can move and you're like, Oh, I used to just put you there and you stayed.
Joshua Boswell: Right!
Elizabeth Saunders: Now you're mobile! So I would say there's macro and micro. In terms of macro what seems to work best for me is to really think about that during my weekly or monthly planning.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: Like, what's happening or what's coming up and what's the right thing for me now in this season? So for example, prior to us having our daughter there was just a lot of volunteer work. I was doing up to 10 hours a week of different things and different groups I was a part of that were really important to me.
And I'm still part of some things but I've had to way dial down how involved I can be. So for me now if I volunteering an hour a week, I'm like, Good job, you move the needle, you move something forward. Versus before it would be like, I could spend most of the day on Saturday doing something that I just found personally fulfilling.
Joshua Boswell: Hmm.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so that is something where I think if you can stop and pause and just really reassess and reflect. What's most important now and what is God calling me to do now?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And that helps you to intentionally let go of things if needed without guilt. Like, Oh, I should be doing this or I want to be doing this. And also to add things if you feel that you need them. Even my husband and I at first… so prior to having our daughter, we always had very much a date night. Every Wednesday night and also made sure to also do fun things on the weekend. And then when you first have a child it’s mass chaos the first few weeks no matter how much you try to plan.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so then we really had to work on reestablishing time together and prioritizing each other. So I would say on a macro level just on that weekly and monthly basis, thinking about where you're at and what to do really really helps. And then the micro level of, Okay, so I'm at work and now I'm with my kids and now I'm going to church or whatever that looks like.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: For me, doing daily planning is extremely helpful. So just having a sense of always knowing what's next. So for example, when I end my work day today, I know the next thing is I'm gonna be with my daughter and I’ll nurse her. And after that, it'll be okay, then I know after that I want to have playtime with her. And then after I've played time with her then my husband will be with her and I'm gonna take an opportunity to work out.
So having already thought through an advance what the next thing will be I think really reduces that transition time. Versus if I finish work and I'm like, Okay, what's next? You can spend 30 minutes to an hour just doing random stuff that doesn't particularly matter to you.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Versus if you're like, Okay, I know I'm doing this playtime with my daughter then I know I'm working out, like it actually can happen and a much more effective way.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And then in terms of the mindset and getting yourself… maybe out of work mode, even if you've physically transitioned but getting yourself mentally transitioned. I find if you can have a change of location that really helps.
Joshua Boswell: Huh.
Elizabeth Saunders: And it doesn't have to be dramatic. I work from home, I've done that since 2005. And I just have a room that's my office. And so when I leave that room, it's like, okay, I'm getting out of work mode and taking off my Blazer and being and Mommy Mode now. So that just physical transition tends to really help and then for me also, I find having a bit of a wrap-up routine to be very very helpful.
Joshua Boswell: Okay.
Elizabeth Saunders: So yeah, so what that looks like in my situation is I just review by inbox, do a quick scan, make sure there's nothing really urgent that needed to be taken care of. I will look over my plan for the day and see like, is there anything that I didn't get done that truly is urgent that I need to take care of now? Or can it all wait until the next work day?
And just basically get things sorted out so I know mentally there's not no open loops that I'm leaving or nothing important that I've forgotten and I can have closure on that. So then again when I step out I'm like, I'm here. I'm Mom. I'm just doing these other things. And so I found those little things to be very helpful. So I don't have open loops and kind of anything running through the back of my head like, oh I should be doing this or still thinking about it.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, so I just want to say… so here's where I get to say thanks. Because I have on my calendar, you and I set it up, again, two and a half years ago, whatever it was. At 3pm a wrap-up, 15 minute wrap-up of my day.
Elizabeth Saunders: Mmm. Yep.
Joshua Boswell: And I have not… full confession. I do not do it every single day. But the vast majority of the time a reminder kicks on, I’m like, all right, I'm gonna transition from one thing to another and here's the way to wrap up close up loop ends, what needs to happen tomorrow move things over to the next today list and then often be able to focus the family or whatever other responsibility stuff that I'm doing.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So you guys listening to this, what Elizabeth is saying here is enormously powerful. It's really cool. Because you stop… now this is just me maybe, but I stop squirreling in my brain about the 20 million things that’ve got to do. It’s like it's somewhere, it's captured, I know I'm gonna come back to it tomorrow, it's loose ends are tied up. It's fine. It’s really powerful.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, and it's that mental peace.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Because you can be transitioned from “being done” with work… but your mind is still thinking about everything.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Elizabeth Saunders: Because like you said it isn't written down, or you haven't planned when it will happen or you're not quite sure it was okay that you didn't do it today. And so just doing that is so helpful. And if there is something let's say you didn't completely finish something but it's not a terrible issue for it to get done the next day, you can even send a quick email to someone and say, Hey I'm working on that item. Wanted to let It's on my radar. I'll get back to you tomorrow with it completed. And it just gives you that closure. Because without the closure then your mind, like you said, will just keep squirreling or thinking about it.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, thinking through stuff.
Margie Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: That increased communication is another thing you taught me that I picked up from our coaching. It was really powerful. It's like, by the way, this is where I'm at. And I find that if I get behind in my communications with a client, with Church responsibilities, with the family, then I stew on it. And it disrupts my peace and fulfillment levels, right? It’s like, hey by the way, here it is, we're on track to hit the deadline, we're not on track to hit the deadline. I'm gonna cover that tomorrow. We're gonna do this, that, all those kinds of things. So that's been huge, huge helpful for me. It's very cool.
Okay. I’ve got another question for you.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So you've talked a lot… and this is not exactly about time management, but it is because I think it wraps up in a lot of stuff. But you've talked a lot about that Divine process and praying and seeking guidance. I think that a lot of people sort of struggle with that either concept or with how to actually do that. And you do it so naturally, I would love to hear your thoughts on what that process looks like for you, if it's not too personal in terms of seeking Divine guidance.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: How do those answers come and then how do you take that and then turn it into actual implementation in your life? I think those are three different steps in the process that I think sometimes people stumble on.
Elizabeth Saunders: For sure, I would be so happy to share. So I would say the first thing is that… And why quote unquote, maybe it seems so natural is it's just been cultivated as a lifestyle over time. So since I've been in Christian as long as I can remember.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: I think I know I accepted Jesus when I was like seven, but maybe younger than that? But it's just always been part of our family life growing up.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And it just integrated into it. And then starting about the age of all 11 I began to read my Bible and do prayer journaling each morning. And so that's just been like a habit that's when cultivated over 30 years of just a daily devotion to showing up and being present.
Joshua Boswell: So prayer journaling.
Margie Boswell: I love that.
Joshua Boswell: Sorry, I'm gonna poke here. This sounds… I love this.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So does this look like, ya know, praying and then writing thoughts down? Reading scriptures and writing thoughts down. What does that look like?
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, so prayer journaling, what it's like for me has been basically looked like a letter to God. I don't know else to say that other than that. Like, dear God, blah blah blah. So whatever I'm thinking about, like I'm worried about this, or this is what's going on, or I'm thinking about that. And just writing out my thoughts and concerns.
Joshua Boswell: Love it.
Elizabeth Saunders: So it's like journaling but not just thinking, ya know, I'm writing this on paper, but thinking I'm writing this to someone.
Joshua Boswell: right
Elizabeth Saunders: Who loves me, who knows me, who can do something about this.
Joshua Boswell: right
Elizabeth Saunders: And so yeah, so prayer journaling has been part of my life. And then obviously prayer and bringing things before God.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so that's kind of just the basis and why I found that to be such just a helpful element of my life is that it's this daily reminder and check of having God's perspective on things, recognizing there is a God, recognizing He can handle things. And with going to scripture, it's having the mind of Christ. And so for example, especially with being a mom, it's been very interesting. I did not have any sort of postpartum depression, which I'm so grateful for. But I experienced postpartum anxiety in the sense of I love my daughter so much. Like so much. The idea of anything bad happening to her ever in her entire life is horrifying to me.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so then you hear about anything happening to any child in the entire world and you're like, Oh my gosh, I don't want that to happen to my daughter! So I think I already loved children, but I think I've become hypersensitive towards anything I perceive as ill towards children.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so for me, I would say one of my theme chapters has been Psalm 37 where it just talks about don't fret because of evil people. Don't fret because of those who prosper in their way because the grass they're gonna wither and fade away. And it's like, trust the Lord and do good, dwell in the land and feed on his faithfulness, delight yourself and the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. And so the first way we hear God is through that cultivation of the daily process of reading scripture. Because we recognize we're not supposed to fret, we’re not supposed to worry. Like, this is how God sees the world. This is His role.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders:And that helps you to have the correct mindset. And then when it comes to just really hearing God's voice about any particular thing going on in your life, for me the prayer journaling is really helpful.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Or I find going on walks and just allowing myself to just be away from technology and all of that and just let myself hear God's voice.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: I also find I hear God well in the car, just when I'm driving. And just like asking God what do you think about things? What does this look like? And they're all opportunities for me to get peaceful, get clear. And everyone's different in terms of how they hear God, but for me when I'm trying to discern something it will sometimes be a phrase I'll just hear God say a phrase to me. Like, I'm taking care of this or I've got this.
Or… I had a situation where I was not quite sure about something for my daughter and I was like, is this healthcare provider someone good for us to go to or not? And I just really felt like God saying, Just trust yourself.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: If you're feeling uncertain…
Joshua Boswell: Do something else.
Elizabeth Saunders: You don't need to go to this self-care provider. You can go somewhere else. So I will sometimes hear simple phrases. And then another way where I feel like I hear God's voice or know what's right for me is just a sense of Peace.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: So in this situation where I was seeking out some healthcare for my daughter, when I made the decision I was like, something in my gut just isn’t feeling good about this particular provider. And then I chose not to go back, and I just had peace about it. It wasn't like doubting. I was like, maybe we should go. It's like no, God can provide someone that can take care of her needs that I feel completely comfortable with what's happening here.
Joshua Boswell: Totally. Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so that's kind of like how I hear. And then in terms of how I walk it out, if God tells me something, I do try to write it down. To just remind me this is what God said, this is what’s there. And then take those steps of faith.
So in this situation with my daughter, I just chose not to go to this healthcare provider. We actually had a follow-up appointment already scheduled. We had our initial one and then another one. And I just contacted them and I was like, thank you so much for all your help. We're looking into some different options, please release the appointment. And then we just moved out from there.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Maybe that made them feel awkward or whatever, but it doesn't matter. If God's telling you this person isn't an okay person for my child to be cared by, then that's my responsibility to follow the Lord in that. And then in regards to other things, like even the mindset around having peace about things and not being anxious. So often God will bring me to scripture. And in Matthew it talks about don't worry about tomorrow because today's worries are enough for today.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: So in terms of walking that out, God will give me that scripture, write it down. And then if I notice my mind going towards like, Oh my gosh, what if something terrible happens to our country and my daughter has a horrible place to live, you know? Don't even have electricity because they're banning the use of gas or oil or something like that.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah!
Elizabeth Saunders: I just have to be like, you know what? God said no, I'm just supposed to focus on this right now. I'm just supposed to focus on today, not worry about the future.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Then I just turned my mind towards worship music or towards gratitude for what God is doing, and just choose to redirect them towards what God is saying and then that brings the peace.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: So long story short, how I hear God is daily time in scripture. When I have something to discern, giving it extra space where I'm like walking or driving or just in a place where I can have more mental clarity.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And then whatever He says, then it's my responsibility to walk that out. If He tells me, don't be anxious about tomorrow because today's worries are enough for today, but I keep saying, Oh my gosh, but the electric grid can't handle things. Ahh! I'm in disobedience. Like He said, don't worry about it. It's gonna be fine. And so I then have the responsibility to discipline my mind, heart and spirit towards what God is saying, not towards what I think may be a concern either an hour in the future. So, there you go.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: Wow.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, so that's so incredibly powerful. And here's what I love about this, is that a lot of people when it comes to time management or success or doing… you know, confusion’s the enemy to action. It just really is. And when we're confused and we're full of doubts and concerns we tend to freeze and start to analyze everything and chew on stuff.
And the process you're talking about where you're able to have that direction, have that inside brings with it not only peace… and I'm putting words in your mouth here, but I would also say an enormous amount of confidence. It's like, oh actually I can turn my mind away from the crazy electric grid and gas blah blah blah, because I'm confident that I've got direction on this and I can just focus on the now, right?
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah…
Joshua Boswell: Go ahead.
Elizabeth Saunders: I was just gonna say, it doesn't rob us of the good we could do.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so that's where I think with this time management, mental space, divine time management thing comes together is, when we're anxious and concerned about things we can't actually control or do anything good about, we're robbed of the good we could be doing in the world.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so that's the real loss.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: You think you're somehow doing something good about being worried about this. But you can't do the good you can because you're so distracted from right here right now, my child needs this love and support and I could be playing with them. Or doing something good for my business or whatever that is.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Elizabeth Saunders: Because you're so worried about something that may or may not happen in the future that you can't do anything about.
Joshua Boswell: Totally. Totally. And I would say the same thing’s true. You know, we live in a super distracting world.
Elizabeth Saunders: Mm-hmm.
Joshua Boswell: You've got the news and you’ve got this endless stream of social media, and what are the Joneses doing? And it's like this constant bombardment of information. And I think a lot of people… Oh and by the way, they create that information intentionally for addiction factors. I'm not being conspiracy theorist, but they make money by people being on their platform. So how do you keep people on the platform? Can we get people addicted to being on the platform, right?
Elizabeth Saunders: Yep, exactly.
Joshua Boswell: And I think that what happens is we have these massive opportunity costs. So we give up so much because our mind is focused in these other areas. And the process that you're talking about here, Elizabeth, is a fundamental, foundational way for us to sort of pull the ship aright. Get in line with God, in line with our priorities and where we should be at and not lose all those opportunity costs. And we can spend… when we're with family, when we're with business, you know the things that are important to us, we can be there fully present.
Margie Boswell: Present.
Joshua Boswell: And have and allow God's influence to work through us and allow our influence to bless other people.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And to bring value to them. It's just incredible, really is.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah and really tying this back into having a happy family, a couple of things there. One is, your children's minds, especially when they're babies. Throughout their life, but especially babies. They have something called mirror neurons.
Joshua Boswell: Hmm.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so how your children's brains are formatted, almost like the programming, is based on what they see happening in your brain, it gets formatted similarly.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so, if your brain is formatted towards anxiety and fear and distraction by all these things, you're literally developing that program in your own children’s brain.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Versus if your brain is formatted towards focus and peace and trusting God, then you can be developing that mental model in their brain. So that they have the resilience they need, both when they're with you but also in the future.
Margie Boswell: That’s right.
Elizabeth Saunders: And then secondly. God even was speaking to me about this this week, because I had that postpartum anxiety come up of like, oh my gosh, what if something… you know these bad things are happening in the world and what if it ever impacted my daughter?!
And I just really felt the Lord saying, He's like, there will always be bad things happening in the world. Until we get to heaven. There's always someone somewhere in the world where something bad is happening to them.
Joshua Boswell: Always has been.
Elizabeth Saunders: But does that mean you need to be anxious and not enjoy what you have? Like that you have a roof over your head and you have heat and you have electricity and nothing bad is happening to your daughter in any way at all right now? And I just really was like, wow, I have to be so careful to not allow my joy in my family and my wonderful husband and my beautiful daughter to be robbed from me by concern about people and things that are outside my control.
And where I do have the ability to make a positive impact, I do. I still volunteer and I do give to good causes and I try to do the positive things in the world that I can. But it's a huge disservice to our families when we allow anxiety about things outside of our families to keep us from just savoring and enjoying the good of them right in front of us right here right now.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Totally. I love that.
Margie Boswell: Such a good point.
Joshua Boswell: It's such a powerful point because one thing that we've learned which is blowing to me is our oldest just turns 26. It's hard for me to wrap my head around that I'm that old, and that 28 years of marriage have gone, almost 29, have gone by between Margie. And it was just so fast. But I think back about how precious each of the individual moments are and how they accumulate to what we have today. And I don't think that we understand the unintended consequences of losing the fulfillment, the peace and the joy of the moment in our family life.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah exactly.
Joshua Boswell: Because the time will compound that either for good or for ill, and it's so important. So time management plays an incredibly critical role, again from the emotional standpoint. Not the… the logistical side’s important, but the emotional side.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: What we give up or get, like what you're talking about, it’s so powerful, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. And the one other thing I would put in there because we're talking about time management and healthy families is it really is okay to take care of yourself.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, yes.
Elizabeth Saunders: I totally understand, I have only one child and some people such as yourself have many more than I do, but even in that, no matter how many children God blesses us with, we’ve got to take care of ourselves.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so for example, I'm a swimmer and that's something that brings me a lot of joy and helps me feel healthy and not have any sort of back pain or anything like that. And I was allowed to swim again starting six weeks after I gave birth.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: And so I did. And my husband and I just worked out three days a week when we have designated times where I can go swimming and he's in charge of our baby girl. And just having that routine was so helpful. Because otherwise it's like, I could go in a way anytime, but then it's not my time. And then you kind of have that Mom guilt.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: Should I be going? Should I not be going? I don't know. And sometimes my daughter cried because she's used to spending more time with me than with her dad, then with my husband. So I would sometimes come home from swimming and realize she had cried a lot while I was gone. And then again, you kind of have that mental thing of like, Am I a bad mom?
It's like hey, wait a second, it is literally four and a half hours, like three one and a half hour blocks out of the entire week when you are doing this swimming. This helps you be mentally, physically and emotionally healthier to do this. Like, you need this. And even if she cries some during this time, she's with people that love her, she is safe. She is fine. She's fed. You can do that. And so I just include that to you because part of having a happy family is us being happy.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Elizabeth Saunders: And when you don’t give yourself permission to do the things that you need to, within proper context of course, to take care of yourself, you can end up quite miserable. And then you think, Oh, I'm doing this for my family, but then they think, please go take care of yourself.
Joshua Boswell: Right, exactly. Like, please.
Elizabeth Saunders: So that I think is a big part of time management too, just like having that structure and routine so that… Like, there's things I need and my husband is wonderfully supportive to help me have that and vice versa. Things he needs. And I'm like, well I can't necessarily go out and do this thing, but ask one of your friends if they can go to a hockey game with you or something else. So he can still do the things that he loves and wants to do even when I need to be home with our baby.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Elizabeth Saunders: So that I think has been so helpful and, it's really made it so that I have a lot of joy in being a mom. Versus I think if I didn't give myself kind of those small pockets of time to take care of myself that I would feel the strain of it a lot more in terms of my life.
Joshua Boswell: I love it.
Margie Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: Well, I think that's a great place to kind of wrap up for today.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Although, we could probably talk about a lot of other stuff. So thank you very much for your time, and I just wonder if you could share with us one last thing. And that is, I'm willing to bet there's a lot of people who are frazzled and frustrated and not quite sure if they're on the path God wants them to be and worry about time management letting all this stuff we've talked about kind of rob precious moments. So how do we direct them deeper into your world?
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: What's a good entry point for them to just discover more about time management and get deeper on the principles we talked about today?
Elizabeth Saunders: Absolutely. So if you go to my website, which is www.reallifee.com, that's r-e-a-l-l-i-f-e and then another “e” as in Elizabeth dot com, you can find lots of resources. So I have a quiz on what's your time management blind spot. You can find out about my three books, there's hundreds and hundreds of articles that I've written over the years, maybe thousands that you can check out. As well as find out about one-on-one coaching.
So I do work with clients all over the world on really figuring out what aligned. What are their priorities? What do they want for themselves, for their family? For their business or their job, whatever that looks like. And really helping them live that out. So www.RealLifeE.com is the best way to find me.
Joshua Boswell: Awesome.
Margie Boswell: That’s so great.
Joshua Boswell: And the one-on-one coaching, I mean Elizabeth and I worked together guys, when I was at a crossroads and making decisions about transitioning to new business and there was a bunch of stuff in the church that was going on. And you may remember, I mean you deal with a lot of people.
Elizabeth Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: But there was stuff happening in the family life and you know, there was all this stuff going on and I was at this crossroads. And it was incredibly helpful to me to have that one-on-one experience with Elizabeth. So if that's where you're at, all of her other resources, again, I've read the books and the articles and they're all fabulous.
Margie Boswell: Mm-hmm.
Joshua Boswell: And sometimes you just need a coach to help you through stuff. And so if you're in that spot, I cannot recommend Elizabeth high enough. She's really extremely, extremely good at what she does for making those kinds of decisions and understanding better how to manage your time and all this stuff we've talked about today. So Elizabeth, thank you so much for spending time with us today. Again we know you have your routines. As the airlines say, we know you have choices. Thanks for flying with us today, right?
Elizabeth Saunders: My delight. So happy to be here.
Joshua Boswell: And enjoy time with that sweet precious baby. It's wonderful. So thanks again for your time. We really appreciate it.
Elizabeth Saunders: My pleasure. Bye
Joshua Boswell: Take care. Bye now.