Podcast Transcript
Attendees:
Joshua & Margie Boswell, Dr. Scott Turansky
Transcript:
Joshua Boswell: Hello everybody, welcome again to the Happy Family Club podcast, we are so honored and delighted to have Dr. Scott Turansky here with us today and I'm gonna let Margie tell a little bit about you Scott, and I forgot to ask you if you go by Dr. Scott, Dr. Turansky, Scott, Grandpa? I think you go by all those at some point, right?
Scott Turansky: I do. People… Scott is fine. Most of the time when I'm working with families professionally, sometimes I like the kids to say Dr. Scott, but other than that, it's whatever works.
Joshua Boswell: Beautiful.
Margie Boswell: That sounds great!
Joshua Boswell: Why don’t you go ahead and introduce our good buddy Dr. Scott?
Margie Boswell: Okay, Dr. Scott. He is a great man. We've had a wonderful time getting to know him. He's a husband, a father, a pastor, a parenting expert.
Joshua Boswell: Professor, don’t forget.
Margie Boswell: He's a professor, yes, and an author. His wife is an author too. He and his wife Carrie are the parents of 5 children and 11 grandchildren. That's amazing.
Joshua Boswell: Super cool.
Margie Boswell: He graduated from Portland State University, obviously in Oregon there with a BA in speech communication. And then, he got two Masters from Western Seminary, where one was in Divinity, And the other in Theology. Is that right, Scott?
Scott Turansky: That's it.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, And I love this part, can I mention this?
Margie Boswell: Yeah I love this.
Joshua Boswell: If I remember reading, right, you took all the Bible classes twice, and then you took some 30+ hours in Hebrew or Greek, and then 30+ hours and the other one. So you could study the Bible in original languages, right?
Scott Turansky: That's right. I knew where I was going. I knew I was gonna be a pastor, and I felt like taking those Bible courses from additional teachers would be helpful. And then studying the languages would be important for the depth I needed to preach the sermons and do the research in God's Word that I needed to do.
Joshua Boswell: And what I love about that. And so of course, we'll get into this more in a minute. And I'll let you finish the induction. But what I love about that is that also gave you such an incredible depth that you're using now with parents and helping them with their children.
Because you are so immersed in God's word and have such a great understanding of what God has taught and what Christ has taught, it's just amazing. So anyway… keep going. There's more accolades to put on Dr. Scott's here. So keep going, Margie.
Margie Boswell: Okay. Well, he also earned a doctorate of ministry in organizational management and strategic planning, is that right?
Scott Turansky: That's correct.
Margie Boswell: From Fuller Theological Seminary, that's amazing. Doctor of Ministry there. And he's the co-founder of Biblical Parenting and the podcast that we all love called Parenting Is Heart Work.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: So, we're very excited to chat with you today and find out your insights into happier families.
Scott Turansky: Thank you, Margie. It's good to be with you folks.
Margie Boswell: Thank you.
Joshua Boswell: It is good. On an interesting note, I lived in the Netherlands as a missionary for a couple years. And I know your co-host is Dutch on that podcast. Yeah.
Scott Turansky: That's right. She's Elena Zwetsloot, she's from the Netherlands and so we get together by zoom every week
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: and record the podcasts that come out on the Parenting Is Heart Work Podcast.
Joshua Boswell: I'd love to meet her at some point and swap stories about the Netherlands. Love that country and those people. It's amazing.
Margie Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: So we have a burning question that we like to ask, given your experience and background. I think the one other thing that we didn't mention is that you also do parenting coaching and have the opportunity to work with… Not only in your ministry, in your church, but also one-on-one with parents.
So you really have been embedded into… I don't know if we call the battlefield of creating successful families? Because there is a bit of a war going on out there against families. And you're right in the heart of helping parents and children have great tools and resources.
So we're gonna dig into some of that and I’d really like to ask the question in just a minute about what you see is a key principle to create greater family happiness? And before we do that, though, I'd love to dive into some of your backstory.
Because I did read a little bit about how you started your ministry with your dad, in Hawaii. And then you now have created an incredibly successful online platform with Biblical Parenting and you've got a number of books. So, tell us a little bit about how you came to where you're at right now and some of the backstory. What led you to this incredible ministry?
Scott Turansky: I've had a real interest in parenting for a long time. I grew up in a Christian home, my parents did a good job at what they were doing. They passed the faith unto me and my siblings and just enjoyed the benefits of being part of the church. My father encouraged me in the church in so many ways. So that when I graduated from seminary, I went and pastored the church with my dad.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Scott Turansky: Felt like that was a privilege and learned a lot from him. And in those first eight years of ministry while I was with my dad, I started doing parenting seminars to the community. My son was only one year old but I got together with the local pediatrician and the Christian psychologist in our community and we offered this seminar from three different experts in the community, and we had this great attendance. People were really interested in it. So then I moved away from Hawaii, that's where my first church was.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And moved to New Jersey, and I started in another church. And right away, I met Joanne Miller who's a pediatric nurse. And again, I wanted this multi-dimensional presentation of parenting, not just one person. So Joanne worked with me… she actually attended some initial parenting groups I offered to the community. She was giving feedback and information, I think you could add this. I said, Well, why don't you do some teaching in the next one?
Joshua Boswell: All right.
Joshua Boswell: There you go.
Scott Turansky: So she did and over time, then she and I have authored 15 books on parenting and we've taught numerous seminars all across the United States speaking at conferences and so on. So her involvement has been just a treasure, because she brings the perspective of a mom.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Scott Turansky: And the perspective of a pediatric nurse and all of that just broadens the whole depth of our ministry. So I really appreciate her. And then we've been teaching and writing ever since. So that National Center for Biblical parenting.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: Then sometime… must have been almost 10 years ago, Concordia came to me and said, Hey, would you take your books, put them into a class, and we'll run your class? And so I said, Yeah, okay, I'll take four of the books. We used them as textbooks. And so, out of that, then I teach at the University.
And I’ve taken that material, not only used it at the university, but I teach it through the National Center for Biblical Parenting, to allow other people to become coaches.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Scott Turansky: And I've trained over 500 coaches now.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Scott Turansky: We work digitally with parents one-on-one creating individualized, personalized, programs for parents. And that's going very well, very excited about that. In fact, my work at Concordia is expanding out of the university. They've chosen 10 courses to offer in China and one of those courses is my course.
Joshua Boswell: Wow
Scott Turansky: So I require every person who goes through my course, either at Concordia or through the National Center for Biblical parenting, to work with a parent while I am teaching them. So it's very practical.
Joshua Boswell: Sure.
Scott Turansky: I want them to see God’s grace pass through them to another family. And they're just pumped. I'm training some right now and just all the things that are coming through, people are going, Wow, this is so great. We got to get the word out!
Margie Boswell: Oh… Wonderful!
Joshua Boswell: What incredible miracle. It’s like the hand of the Lord is reaching out, allowing you to push that in so many areas, including China, which is just incredible outreach and incredible impact.
Scott Turansky: It is really special for us to be in China. And every time I train, I've got people from all kinds of countries around the world. So right now, I've got someone from Singapore and another person from Nigeria in training. But I've trained people from all… A number of places in Africa, and Southeast Asia, and South America. And of course, Canada and Mexico…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: and Europe... So, I've got a lot of trainers or counselors or coaches that can work with families and it's just growing and I'm very excited about that.
Joshua Boswell: That's amazing. Well, I don't know what the intake process there is. But I would imagine that there are some of our listeners that might be like, Wow, I can get trained by this guy and figure out how to coach. So, maybe later, we can talk about how to direct them into some of your programs.
Because we need more people who are in the homes, coaching, helping, parenting. And I think especially since a lot of parents…. I grew up in a rather interesting environment. Margie grew up in what you would consider an ideal home. And so, Margie's taught me, between God and Margie, that's how I've learned how to parent.
Margie Boswell: And our 11 children.
Scott Turansky: What a blessing.
Margie Boswell: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: It is a great blessing. So what…? I just am curious, sort of even stepping further back, What was the original kernel that caused you to be so passionate about parenting? I mean, I love the work that you've done. But what's your kind of driving “Why” behind that?
Scott Turansky: When I was in my first church, I'm studying God's word. I'm seeing principles that apply to the family. And during those eight years, where I was working with my dad in Hawaii, I also directed the preschool that was there.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And I saw the need that parents have and I saw how… we were doing things in the preschool in some ways, and they were not carrying the same message home.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And so if we can train the parents, we could do some valuable things and then over time then that grew into this passion that parents are the best counselors for their children. They are the best trainers for their children if they have a good plan.
So my goal is to empower parents. I believe that parents are the best trainers and many parents call our office and they say things, like My son's been in counseling for a year. He's 10 years old with anger issues. Or My daughters have been in play therapy. She's six years old dealing with her issues.
And my question is always the same. What have they learned there? And the continual response is, I don’t know first of all, because it's in private.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Scott Turansky: And secondly, I don't know that we're making that much progress. And then they get into our program and within a couple weeks, they're already seeing these changes and they can't believe what's happening.
So just this real passion that we have to train parents and empower them because that's who will bless the children. Our end users are children. We work with parents to bless those children.
Margie Boswell: To bless them. Awesome.
Joshua Boswell: And it's so true. I mean, God obviously would not have created the family structure the way it is if parents were not ordained in design to be those primary counselors and that influence force.
Scott Turansky: That's right.
Joshua Boswell: And I love how you have so accurately identified that and then empowered those parents. So it's really amazing.
Scott Turansky: Thank you.
Joshua Boswell: Well thank you for that passion. And thank you for doing that work.
Margie Boswell: Yes!
Joshua Boswell: And it sounds like just thousands of parents around the world have been blessed from it. And as you said the end user, the child.
Joshua Boswell: The children, yes. Save the children.
Joshua Boswell: Those children have been blessed. So let's talk for just a minute about what you see is a key principle… I mean, I'm sure you could probably share a lot of stuff, but I'd love to focus in on what you see is a key principle to greater family happiness. And then we'll talk about some practical stuff.
Scott Turansky: Okay so I think that parents, as they're working with children, must take on this attitude of discipleship, with their kids. They're moving children from what we would say is from point A to point B.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: This child… just like God works with us, He moves us in the sanctification process from point A to point B. We need to have the same attitude with our children to move them from point A to point B.
That means these children are going to grow in character and spiritual development. They're gonna develop some greater ability to relate to themselves emotionally, but also to deal with other people. It's so strategic. If parents have that mentality, then they can increase closeness, which is often their goal…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: reduce tension, which is often the problem in the home, and they focus on raising these disciples for Christ.
And so I think that happiness is elusive and sometimes parents believe that pleasure is the goal of childhood. And so let's give our kids all kinds of things, let’s help them to be happy and that's gonna contribute to their self-esteem.
But unfortunately, if we overemphasize pleasure in a child's life, then they have a hard time handling disappointment. Because they just don't get what they want. And disappointment is a pervasive problem. Kids don't know how to handle the disappointments of life.
If we have a different mentality, this training mentality with children, Then pleasure becomes a byproduct of a mission oriented view of life. That is the best way to view pleasure. It is a byproduct, but it can't be the goal of any of our lives. Otherwise we find ourselves addicted.
So here's what happens. If you emphasize pleasure over and over again, the end result is addiction. I want more video games, I want more food, I want more money or whatever it is. Because that's bringing me happiness. We've got to change the mentality. Get our whole hearts focused on the Lord. Following Him, doing what's right, and pleasures of byproduct.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah so I agree…
Margie Boswell: Wow.
Joshua Boswell: Margie and I agree with that 100%. I'm not sure we've ever articulated it quite like that. We've talked before about… oftentimes we see in youth organizations and church organizations that we try to compete with the world and just entertain. Just raw entertainment.
Let's make this super fun activity… and not that there's anything bad about that. But Margie's always said, Let's give them something they can't get anywhere else. Let's give them the Spirit. Let's give them closeness to God, let's get them centered on Christ and that will produce the joy they're looking for, but it'll produce it in a way that doesn't create pain and deficits and problems. And I think that's exactly what you're saying. It's awesome.
Scott Turansky: It is, you're right.
Joshua Boswell: So how have you gone about that? I mean again, you've got multiple books on this but I'd love to pin down two or three very practical ways that we can get that shift away from the entertainment, away from the pleasure and into that, heart-centered Christ centered experience so that they're actually mission focused and not entertainment focused. What are some practical things parents can do to make that shift?
Scott Turansky: In our book, Parenting Is Heart Work... That's not hard work, Heart Work.
Joshua Boswell: Heart work.
Scott Turansky: Heart work. Then in that book, we talk about what the heart is. Now that book's being used in three seminaries now, because it's a biblical study of the heart. 750 times the word heart is used. And it gives parents practical ideas of how to apply that.
So I take my theological studies… and that’s what we do with all of our books. We do the research first. What does it mean to follow this particular idea through the Scriptures? And then we look for practical ways to apply that.
So Parenting Is Heart Work is a strategic book to help parents understand what that looks like. Now, as we were doing this study of 750 times the word heart is used in the Bible, when we put together Parenting Is Heart Work, we had this whole group of verses left over that had to do with the conscience.
So we created Parenting Is Heart Work 2, but we couldn't name it that. We called it Motivate Your Child which is about building internal motivation inside of a child. So that pair of books is strategic. Motivate your child about building internal motivation which comes from the heart. And it really counters this problem that many parents have, and is that they use reward punishment to move children along in their lives.
If we use behavior modification or the reward punishment model to bring about change, then what we're saying to a child is, I'll give you what you want, if you do what I say.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: We're appealing to the selfishness in the child. And the end result is that children ask the wrong questions in life. They start asking the question, What's the minimum I need to do to get my reward? Or, Are you gonna pay me for that?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: So those questions that children grow up with lead to an attitude of entitlement or victim mentality. We've got to focus on the heart. And so, moving our children in that direction, helps them greatly.
Joshua Boswell: Incredible.
Margie Boswell: Love it.
Joshua Boswell: Margie is a master, at least an aspect of this. Years ago she started, instead of having Christmas lists of what the children wanted, she started helping them to see, Okay, what are you going to give? And how are you going to serve people at this time in order to honor Christ? And so they went from this attitude of, Oh, what am I going to get? And what am I gonna benefit…?
Margie Boswell: What do I want?
Joshua Boswell: Instead, How am I going to serve and give and lift other people? And the impact has been unbelievable on our family, Scott. So I just say that because what you're talking about here is, we're proof in the pudding and that's confirmation about what it is.
Scott Turansky: That's great. I so… that is such a valuable concept because children do focus on themselves. God has a concept, he calls honor.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And so as we studied honor in the Bible, then we came up with a book about that, but the books called, Say Goodbye To Whining, Complaining And Bad Attitudes For You And Your Kids.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Scott Turansky: The idea here is that for every form of selfishness, there's an honor-based solution. So as you implement this kind of an idea with families, that children need to get out of their selfish mentality into this sense of giving and supporting and contributing to life, great things happen. And so, yeah, I love that concept of what you're doing about Christmas time.
Joshua Boswell: So let's talk for just a minute… you talked about this… motivation needs to be this internal process and this heart focused process. So let's talk about a scenario here that I see all the time. And that is, a parent will come to Margie and I, and they'll say, Oh my kid’s got to get up for school, for seminary, for church, for fill in the blank. Whatever it is that they're “supposed to” quote, unquote, be doing. And I gotta go in, and I gotta wake him up five times and drag him into the kitchen, I gotta remember their books and then I’ve got to drive them to their thing… and I'm just slogging this kid all the way around. What do I do?
So, give us some insight on advice for a parent like that, to shift that child. Because that child obviously is functioning under an external punishment, compulsion environment that the parent has set up. No judgment or disrespect of the parent, right?
Scott Turansky: Sure.
Joshua Boswell: Most of the time they've done it totally unknowingly. They didn't know anything else. So your advice or insights on getting them to shift from moving that child, from that external compulsion environment to that internal motivation environment.
Scott Turansky: All right, so let's just take this into adulthood just for a moment. Because there's a lot of adults who wait till the pressure builds up, the external pressure. We call it procrastination. They wait till the late fees about to happen or they're gonna be penalized.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And so, we're gonna try to solve this problem when children are a lot younger so that they don’t have the same problem as adults. So, yes, in that book, Motivate Your Child, we're really talking about the conscience and strengthening the conscience. It’s a word used 30 times in the New Testament but the concept is taught throughout the Bible.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: Let's just take the one aspect of the conscience and that is a sense of obligation.
Joshua Boswell: Hmm.
Scott Turansky: When parents teach children and train them with a sense of obligation, then children start saying to themselves or the conscience is prompting them, "I need to.” I need to… turn off the light before I leave the bathroom. I need to… help clear the table when I leave the kitchen. I need to… keep my hands to myself. You know, this sense of obligation is so powerful.
We use it when we're dealing with children with ADHD because a sense of obligation helps them deal with the impulses that they have many times. Or to focus and what they're doing. Obligation is strategic and that is an internal motivation inside of the heart.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: So we build that through training children with this sense of obligation, it’s gonna be a key element here in order to prompt them internally. Now, just let me amplify this a little bit on a theoretical level.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: Remember, every person has a heart. And the heart, the Bible says, is desperately wicked above all things. It has this tendency to go astray. But God has placed two things within the human heart. They keep it going in the right direction. One of those things is the conscience.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: It’s this sense of duty or this sense of guilt or whatever it is that happens inside the conscience, and it’s really powerful in the life of a child, to keep them going in the right direction. The other one is the Holy Spirit.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: When the Holy Spirit is present inside of a child's life, He's speaking and He's directing traffic and He's saying, I don't think you should do that… Or He’s forming us and saying, Good job! And so we have this internal motivation.
So our goal in that particular book is to take the conscience and understand it, and spiritual development and know how to develop that in a child in order to build internal motivation. So children can see what needs to be done and do it without being asked. So children can do the right thing without having to be monitored every moment.
Now that takes training. So we're gonna help children in some strategic ways to be trained to do that. We have to understand the mentality behind it. That there's this heart that exists and children need to be able to recognize what's going on inside the heart and that'll build this internal motivation for them.
Joshua Boswell: I love it. And what you're saying is so powerful and I love that, yes we do have… It's an interesting thing being a human being because there's this one part of us. It's like, Let's go over here and just be wild and crazy. And then there's this other part, this piece of us, and the Holy Spirit in us saying, Oh actually… if you really want to be happy, let's go over here and do this.
And you see this sometimes in children. But what I have experienced is especially younger children. They have such an intense… Our experience has been that they have such an intense desire to want to do good. And to want to please Mom and Dad, and there's this connection there. And I think that Mom and Dad really is an extension of a desire to want to please Heavenly Father. You know, we just want to look to what's good, and we want to feel that.
Scott Turansky: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So I'm interested to hear your insights on how to help children... And maybe let's even push that up a little further and go to a teenager who… Well, we're just starting this process and they’re a little on the wayward side. Or maybe they've drifted over here to this other side a little bit. And how to get them to better understand how to listen to that Holy Spirit. Some call it the still, small voice that’s guiding traffic. And then to discipline themselves to respond to it. What's been your experience in helping kids to do that?
Scott Turansky: All So let's get practical. I've shared with you some theory about internal motivation, but let me give you a very specific…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: One very specific, practical tool you can use with teens or even younger children.
Joshua Boswell: Got it.
Scott Turansky: We call the three C's. Cue, Conscience and Character. And Those are the three C’s. Cues... Well, let's ask the question. You get up in the morning as a parent and you say to your child, Get off the iPad, you need to go and make your bed.
So he makes his bed. Then he gets back on the iPad and you say, You need to go and get dressed. And he gets back on the iPad after he gets dressed. You know… he's obeying. He's doing what you're telling him to do.
Joshua Boswell: All right.
Scott Turansky: But he's not being on track himself. He doesn't have this sense of obligation. So one of the things that we do is we decide, what are the cues?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: I mean, parents have cues. They're trying to be responsible here. And so your cues are the to-do list and the clock. Well, let's transfer the cues to the child. This is gonna need some training.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Scott Turansky: But even young children can learn cues. A three year old who's done playing with toys can learn to put the toys away. The cue is what? I'm done with this toy, I'm gonna play something else. Oh, you're done with the toy? And so we don't say, Now clean up the toys. We say, Oh, you're done with that toy? We're drawing attention to the cue.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: Or, Oh… you're leaving the bathroom. And so the cue is, I'm leaving the bathroom so the child will go, Oh yeah, I'm leaving the bathroom. I need to make sure the toilet is flushed and the light’s turned off.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Scott Turansky: Or with the teenager to say, Oh, you're leaving the table? You know? Or… We're just helping them understand the cues. If we help kids understand the cues then that's gonna be the first step in obligation. But that takes training now.
So parents parent differently. Now, instead of saying in the morning, get your backpack, get your teeth brushed, get your… Instead of doing all of those things, now the parent is saying, Bring me your list. Report back. Look at the time.
And so the parent now is having the child focus on the cues in order to move them to the next step. this next step is the conscience. And this is what we're talking about in this book, Motivate Your Child, the internal motivation.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: The conscience is this internal thing inside of our hearts that's distinguishing right. And wrong and it needs to be trained. What is the right way to leave the bathroom in your house? What is the right way to leave the table in your home? What is the right way to handle sibling conflict in the home? So that takes training.
So now we've got cues that trigger the right way. And then, as children practice this… and of course, each one of these steps require training, but we guide our training in a way that's touching children on a deeper level, not just with behavioral rewards.
Now, we're building the character that's needed in the child's life. The character qualities of diligence, hard work, knowing how to work hard. The character quality of perseverance, knowing how to persevere or hang in there even after I feel like quitting.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Scott Turansky: The character quality of thoroughness, which is attention to detail. By the way, those are three qualities we're using with children with ADHD when we're trying to help them focus.
Joshua Boswell: Amazing.
Scott Turansky: Those are three qualities we use with piano practicing that… you're not going to be a great musician, maybe someday…
Joshua Boswell: Uh-huh.
Scott Turansky: but that's not what we're working on. We're working on character development.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And those are just three of many qualities that we're trying to target. So you've got the cue, the conscience, and the character. Those three C's are just a technique now. Remember, tie it back to the heart, tie it back to this biblical parenting that we're trying to look at here. And that one technique of many techniques, just one technique will guide children in a positive direction.
Joshua Boswell: So amazing. And what I love about it is that, again… I'm just thinking about our experience in raising our children and in helping other parents. And you know, God has blessed you with an amazing brain to articulate and to quantify and to systematize so much of this, it's just beautiful.
And so I'm trying to think, Well, what did we do there? And, one of the things that I have loved is, Margie has always said, Well, you have this choice, this A or B and it's your life, right? So I'm not gonna live your life for you. We’ve lived in a lot of rental homes. We've moved around a bunch through our married life, I got a bit of a moving bug and so we rent a lot of homes and landlords will often say to us, Yeah, renters typically trash the place because they don't feel any ownership.
Scott Turansky: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: And we've talked with our children and said, Even if we don't have ownership we live here. We live with the consequences if we leave a big mess or spill something on the carpet or put a hole in the wall or whatever. We have to live with those consequences and do you want to live like that? No? Okay then, we're gonna take care of this place like it's ours.
Scott Turansky: Good. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And what I hear you saying in some of this is like these three C's and I'm sort of rephrasing here. But these three C’s bring this down to where we help them to have internal drive, internal conscience, a sense of duty. “I need to.” And take ownership for their own life and their own salvation.
Scott Turansky: That's true in Acts 23:1 we have one of the uses of the term conscience by Paul. He says “I have fulfilled my duty before God in all good conscience to this day.” So he's using the word conscience and he's describing this sense of duty, this sense of obligation.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: That’s what we're saying here. We want our children to embrace that. Now the principle you're talking about is this principle of transferring responsibility to children.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And it's just such a crucial principle. We have seven tools we use in our biblical parenting coaching program in order to help children to grow. The seven principles are ones that, in our study of God as our Father, we see how God takes us from point A to point B.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Scott Turansky: A lot of times in our lives using sanctification. And one of those principles is transferring responsibility. Children were very quick to offload responsibilities.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: Not my fault. Blame it on this person and justify. And so we're saying we have to help children take responsibility for their actions. That's what God does with us. Joshua says to the people, Choose this day whom you're gonna serve. But for us, we're gonna serve the Lord.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: That’s right.
Scott Turansky: And this sense of transferring responsibility to children in all aspects of their responsibility that helps them then to be empowered. Children who are victims say, I can't change because it's everybody else's fault that I’m this way. If everybody else would change, I'd be fine. And so they are powerless.
But when we empower them with this concept that you're teaching your kids of transferring responsibility, now we have empowered them with the ability to make changes. Take responsibility for yourself, and you've also the ability to make changes in your world. It's just a critical concept that our children need to understand.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. That's incredible.
Margie Boswell: Well and as you train them up in the way they should go, when they're old, they're not going. You know…
Scott Turansky: That’s right.
Margie Boswell: The classic Proverbs 22. They're not going to depart from it. They're gonna continue with that character and the responsibility that you've ingrained in them. As they’re young children.
Joshua Boswell: So one other thing, and I'm keeping a sharp eye on time here because I got a million questions I could ask you. But we probably don’t have time for a million questions. So let me pick and choose a couple here.
One of the things that's been interesting to us as parents and especially with our large family, what we've noticed is the incredible diversity and range of personalities and thought processes and approaches and character that our children come to us with.
It’s like… well wow. That's, I mean, yes, there are some family traits there, but that is a totally unique human being. And just when we figured out parenting with the first one, the second one came along.
Margie Boswell: Yep!
Joshua Boswell: And then the next one came along. And then the next one came, and the next one came. And I seem to recall you doing some teaching and training on this idea about individuality and the uniqueness of each child.
And I wonder if you could speak to that for just a moment? Because I think that anytime… first of all, a lot of times parents step into parenting, I think, with an idea that, Well, I know myself and I've kind of gotten to know my spouse, and so this child, I'm gonna have a sense of how to interact with them. And then all the sudden the child turns out to be like this totally unique different human being.
Margie Boswell: Very different.
Joshua Boswell: And then they're like, Oh boy, well now what I do? Or maybe they came from a family of all girls and they get boys or vice versa, right?
Margie Boswell: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So what are your insights on how a parent can really see the child as an individual? And not just as a… you know, they're the caretaker of this child and they just have to get them off to school and be done with it, you know? And I'm not sure how to articulate that, but a lot of times we see parents not quite sure how to get a grip on…
Because it's one more thing I hear parents say all the time, I raised them all the same, but look! Like, why did this one turn out that way? And this one turned out that way? And my thought is because well, you raised them all the same!
Margie Boswell: You shouldn’t have raised them all the same…
Joshua Boswell: So can you talk a little bit about that individuality for each child and how parents can address that?
Scott Turansky: Yes, yes. So let me first say that sometimes children don't turn out as well as we'd like, and we can't blame it all on the parents.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Scott Turansky: It often… I mean, children all make their own choices. And so we have to have a lot of grace in parenting.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: The people who know the most about parenting are the ones who don't have any kids. So we need to be careful and humble while looking at another family. If you have an easy child, it's very tempting to say, I got this thing down! Why can't all the rest of you get this down? But let me say this: every child has a heart.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And the heart is this complex place that's hard to understand. In fact, the Bible talks about it as being deep waters but a man of understanding draws it out. So we really have to study our child.
And one of the tools that we offer at the National Center for Biblical Parenting is an assessment tool where you can assess the heart of a child. The heart really is these tendencies, these patterns that children have. That's how Jesus taught us about the heart. He says it's out of the heart that the mouth speaks. He says, The heart is like this trunk of the tree and the behaviors, the fruit of the tree.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: So if you want to understand the heart, then you're gonna have to do a little bit of digging, and you can tell sometimes by the fruit, what's going on inside of the heart of a child. So we measure 10 different areas in a child’s life. It's called a child behavior inventory. It's free. Anybody can go to our website, they answer these questions, it’s an excel spreadsheet. It automatically scores it on a graph and we see then what challenges or unique things about this child that need to be addressed.
So, when we come to sibling conflict, for example, it's very important that parents treat children as individuals, not as a herd.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And so if you've got two children or ten children, or whatever you got, then it's tempting to say, kids all come to dinner. And I say, Look, if you're having a problem with competition and comparison in your home, then you're going to want to break that down.
Some parents say well, if I buy shoes for Jimmy, I better buy shoes for Susie, so I can be fair. This idea of, “fairness means equal” is a lie. And it's what causes anger in a lot of children. Because the children point at their siblings and say, Look what he got. Or, Look what she got. And, I should be able to do more than that. Or, I should be able to have this. That competition and comparison is dangerous. God, doesn't treat us all equally.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: Look at the Bible. He gives everybody a spiritual gift that's different. If you look at the parables, some got five, some got two, some got one talent. And there's no statement in there, Oh well how come I didn't get five?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Scott Turansky: That’s not fair because I got two and he got one. No, there's not that kind of an idea here. Theres…
Joshua Boswell: But in fact, sorry to interject, but there's actually the opposite where in the parable of the workers.
Scott Turansky: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: Some started in the morning and some started in the afternoon in the evening and He pays them all… And they start whining. He's like, I had a deal with you. That was your deal. Like… just chill.
Scott Turansky: Right.
Joshua Boswell: He didn’t say it like that. But.
Margie Boswell: Well and comparing the New Testament, if God is the ultimate parent and His Word is, His parenting handbook, then He parented people in the Old Testament a little differently than He did in the New.
Joshua Boswell: Right. So, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Keep going.
Scott Turansky: My favorite story in this is one of the end of the Gospel of John, where Peter is talking to Jesus. And Jesus telling Peter how he's gonna die. And Peter says, What about him? Pointing at John.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, right.
Scott Turansky: And Jesus says, What is it to you if I let him remain until I come again?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Scott Turansky: The point is, you worry about your relationship with Me. Don't compare yourself to someone else. God is working with every one of us in a unique and special fashion. That's really what children want. They want to be treated uniquely and special. That's what we need to do to break down this competition in comparison, that exists.
So, one of the things we can do here to break that down is not to try to be fair in the sense of equal. “Fair means equal” is a lie. It's not how life happens. And we want to make sure that children understand that. Because if you just focus on fairness, you're continually angry. Because life isn't fair.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Scott Turansky: We got all these problems that come. So as parents, we have to strategically break down that misbelief that children often have. Remember, beliefs are inside of the heart and it's out of heart that comes these behaviors.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: So, much of our work is changing what children believe, and we can do that in a relatively short period of time. With many children… Our program only lasts eight weeks. Our coaching program.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And we see major changes take place in the eight weeks. Sometimes my coaches say, How long should we expect this to take? For changes to take place? My answer is, If you're not seeing change in week one, something's wrong.
Joshua Boswell: Something’s wrong.
Scott Turansky: Either you’re not explaining it well or the parents are not explaining it to the children well, or… something's going on here that we need to address here. So we should change pretty quickly when we're using a heart based approach.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, amazing.
Margie Boswell: That’s amazing.
Joshua Boswell: So again, just looking at the time here… I have this thought about, you've got this assessment that helps parents to dig a little bit deeper and to understand that trunk. And not just see the fruit on the tree.
And, I'm wondering if you have any other practical insights that you can share about how parents can see and recognize and maybe quantify or address some of those unique individual differences in the child.
And then… I love what you just said about… and I jotted down here… Each child wants to feel unique and special. And just wondering about your insights on how to communicate that effectively to the child so that they do begin to shift that behavior?
Scott Turansky: All right, let's deal with your first question.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: Let's do some more assessment. You can use our assessment tool, but when a parent comes to us and says, I'm having trouble with my kids or my child, he's angry or he's got... And so, I say, Okay, here's what we're gonna do for your child. And you have to have a different plan for every one of your kids.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: God has a different plan for each one of us. He's moving us from point A to point B in the sanctification process we're going to create a point A and a point B for your child. So here's what you do… And we give them exact steps. I'm gonna refer to another book here because this is our action plan book that has 12 chapters in it, that shows parents how to do exactly what I'm telling you to do.
Number one, create a list of all the problems this child has. You never show this to the child but it helps you focus on what the problems are. Then you can group those around different categories. How similar are these? And you end up finding they all kind of fall into similar categories here.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: Then we ask the question…. and that in itself is encouraging. Instead of having 50 problems, now we have four or five groups of problems.
Joshua Boswell: Groups for things. Mm-hm.
Scott Turansky: Now we're going to choose a heart quality or a character quality that we're going to work toward. And as we work toward that, we're going to see this point A problem decrease.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: If a child is wrong with anger, we're gonna work on more emotional flexibility. Or we're going to work on self control. Or we're gonna work on peace. We're gonna work on, giving up your agenda, Whatever we're gonna work on here, point B is gonna help point A reduce.
So if the problem is meanness and sarcasm and disrespect, then we're gonna work on… maybe honor, or we're gonna work on love. We're gonna work on treating people differently. This one idea transforms the way parents think, because now they're moving from, Stop it. I can't believe you're doing this. And corrections all the time. Now, they're moving towards this goal of, I'm gonna work towards something.
It makes the parenting positive, you can then engage the child. And the child may, hopefully, going to embrace this new movement toward where they need to be. Parents then can use tools like coaching and teaching and training to move in a direction. Instead of just focusing on the correction they often use.
So there's a very systematic way that we help parents address their children, but they have to do some work here to find out what unique qualities does God want to develop in their lives? And then we develop a very unique and personalized plan. So that's what our coaches do with individualized parents. And we say, Parents say, I got three kids, I can't just deal with one. I say, No, no. We're gonna deal with one child. You choose whichever one you want. We'll bring about changing that one child's life.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: because you can't treat them all the same.
Joshua Boswell: That's right.
Scott Turansky: Let's work one on one, learn how to work with this one. And then you'll take those same principles and go to child number two or child number three and bring about the same kind of heart training that needs to take place.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, and it's the same principles, not the same plan. I really want to emphasize that.
Margie Boswell: Not the same plan.
Scott Turansky: Right.
Joshua Boswell: Because it's so incredible what you're sharing here. I remember one of our… Your story reminds me, one of our children, who is very strong-willed. He was child number five, so he's put in the middle of these other strong-willed siblings and he's down at the caboose of the time and he was just fit to be tied. I mean, he had so much energy, he just wanted to be…
Margie Boswell: In charge and the leader, and couldn't.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, so Margie came up with this marvelous idea. When he got to be… how old? Was he five…?
Margie Boswell: Five or six.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Margie. Put him in charge of changing all the diapers of the younger children. So we had three in diapers at the time. So it was like… You got to figure out… so, five or six and he was in charge of laundry.
Joshua Boswell: Laundry. Yep.
Scott Turansky: That's great.
Margie Boswell: So he got to tell everybody, bring me your laundry. And he was in charge of that and he loved it. He finally got to let his personality shine and it just greatly reduced a lot of the anger and the tension and the frustration that he was feeling inside.
Joshua Boswell: He had an outlet.
Joshua Boswell: Because we treated him, and we saw him as a unique individual, not just the herd, yeah.
Scott Turansky: I love that. That's playing to a child’s strengths which is so valuable.
Joshua Boswell: Yep, so valuable. Okay, one last significant question here for you. I want to kind of shift attention from training the child to looking at your insights on training the parent. So I do want to acknowledge here… Dr. Scott, I love your grace to parents.
I did not come into parenting with any kind of a manual or handbook. I came from a fairly dysfunctional family. And so I had all kinds of weird ideas about lots of different stuff. And I needed a lot of grace. Because I made… I still make a lot of mistakes. And so I want to preface this next question with that.
It’s that, man… the Lord's working with us too and He's patient with us and he compensates for a lot of stuff. I mean, Christ’s full mission was to help that compensation process to sanctify us through His work because He knew we were going to be perfect. We were gonna mess this up at some point, right?
Scott Turansky: That's right.
Joshua Boswell: So… having a sense of how to train the parents. And I just wonder where your insights are about how to help nurture them from that point A to point B. So that they're willing to do the work with their child. They're willing to, you know, make the effort to make the plans to individualize to do some of these things that we've talked about. To look at the heart as opposed to just behavior sets. And what's being your experience in working with so many parents through the years?
Scott Turansky: Yeah, that's a good question. You know there's some parents who just aren't willing to change.
Joshua Boswell: Sure.
Scott Turansky: Some parents are just too busy, they don't have time to parent.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: There are other parents who… they're doing all kinds of good things with their kids and we affirm them. We say, You are doing a lot of good things. If this particular child needs some different good things, we can show you what those different good things are if you'd like.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Scott Turansky: So the ones who are interested in growing and making some change, are the ones that do the best in our programs.
Joshua Boswell: Sure.
Scott Turansky: But we don't focus on the parent and say, Here's how you can become a better parent. We don't do that. We say, Let's focus on your child. Where does your child need to go? And we have a… in the coaching program, We have this “Where do you want to go?” worksheet. The question we're asking is, What does God want this child to change in their hearts and lives?
Now. As soon as we identify that quality or those qualities that child needs to be more responsible or disciple of Christ, more mature, or whatever it might be. Then parents are… we appeal to the fact that the parents love this child.
If you love your child, you're going to want to do these things for this child. We don't tell the parents they have to change. But as they love their kids and they see the problem and now they see the solution that needs to take place they’re willing to adjust the way they work with the child. They're willing to change some of the formats, or the techniques, or even the big principles that this particular child needs.
When we introduce those things, it's for the child's benefit. And then after a little bit of time, parents are often saying, Wow. I'm changing here and we say, Oh good for you. Great.
Or more valuable is when parents say to us, I need this just as much as my kids do. The plans about anger management and about responsibility and obligation and procrastination. All those things that we teach, parents are saying, Well I need this too. And we're saying, Oh, really? Good.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah! Really…? Wow…
Scott Turansky: Family is this laboratory for growth. So, let's all learn here and just share that with your kids. Hey, I am learning this too. I'm learning how to manage my anger. We're growing together. There's a humility we come to with our families that I think is strategic and important.
Margie Boswell: Awesome.
Joshua Boswell: I would say genius, but maybe more so inspired. I mean, a lot of times if we confront the parent directly… I mean I’ve felt this myself. I've seen this behavior set in my children, looked in the mirror and I've been like, You're the problem. You need to change. And then immediately I feel a sense of pride and arrogance, right? Like no, no…
Margie Boswell: I don’t need to change.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah - I don’t need to change. But I kind of bristle a little bit, then I’ve got to humble myself and be like… Oh yeah. Okay. We're gonna work on this a little bit. And I love your approach.
And I think what I would say to all of our listeners is that, You know what? Number one, being kind and graceful and patient with yourself. The way Christ is with us. It’s so important.
Number two, I would say that, as we shift the focus away from ourselves… I mean, Christ clearly taught, he that will lose himself shall find himself. And as we shift away from this… our world tends to be this obsessive, self-indulgent environment, where it's all about me. And it's about how I'm feeling.
And it's.. You know, so many people wake up in the day and they’re like, Do I feel good enough to go to work or to be nice to my kids or do this? And Margie and I have often said, it's not really about you. And I know… as a simple example in this, years and years ago, when I started in my career as a freelance copywriter, I was just terrified because I didn't have experience, I didn't have clients, I didn't have any branding, no recognition and all these deficits.
And while I focused on those deficits and on myself, I had a lot of problems getting clients. And when I shifted that and said, Okay, actually… the system I'm using is proven. I'm just gonna put trust in that system and then I'm gonna be okay.
Scott Turansky: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And I'm gonna focus on the clients. What do they need and how can I serve them? And then I couldn't stop clients from coming.
Scott Turansky: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: And I see what you're doing with this, Scott, and it’s you're making that same shift in the parents minds. It’s like, Let's stop thinking about ourselves. Let's think about our children and we will grow in the process. We'll find ourselves in that loss of self.
Scott Turansky: I just think that… I just love what I do. I just got to tell ya. This is so fun for me. I not only train coaches, but I have my own coaches.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: My own clients that I take on myself and… I just love it. I just love being a part of families lives. I tell my wife… Now week one is always the scariest for me and with my client. Because you hear all of the problems in this family. And you’re going, Oh no, God! What are you gonna do here?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Scott Turansky: And my coaches often when they are done with week one they say, I think I'm way over my head. And I say to them, That's how I feel every time we're in week one! When I hear these things about a family, I'm way over my head. This isn't about me. I'm not the hero in this story.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Scott Turansky: God's the hero. The family’s the hero. And just give them the truth and watch God work. Week Two is my favorite week in the whole Eight Week program. Because in week two, we hear these amazing changes that are starting to take place in this family.
It's just… even just a little bit of change seems like a miracle in the lives of some of these families. When I just got married, which was 45 years ago, my wife and I got married.
Margie Boswell: Wow.
Joshua Boswell: Awesome.
Joshua Boswell: We were guided or counseled to not get a TV for our first year. So we didn't get a TV. And after that, we decided, You know what, we're having so much fun. We're not gonna get a TV ever. So we lived and raised all our children without a TV.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And, you know… There's this reality TV that's on TV now, but I don't need to watch that. If I want to change the channel, I just take on another client. Because I see God's grace working first hand in the lives of people.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: I feel like I'm sitting at the Sea of Galilee while the disciples are passing out the bread. Or maybe I feel like I'm a disciple there. Because it’s not about me. It's about that guy behind me there. Jesus Christ. He's making the changes here. He's doing the miracle. I just get to hand out the bread.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And so it's so exciting to watch families change. And the coaches just get so excited in the training. They can hardly wait to get out there and influence more families, one family at a time. We're gonna help them understand these biblical principles and see changes take place even for the most difficult children.
Joshua Boswell: I love it. so beautiful.
Margie Boswell: So wonderful. What a great work you're doing.
Joshua Boswell: It's awesome.
Margie Boswell: It’s amazing.
Joshua Boswell: And what a great word God's doing through you is a better way to say that.
Scott Turansky: Yeah. That's right.
Joshua Boswell: I think we're kind of at the end of our interview this time. And maybe we have a follow-up at some point. But I would love to direct our audience, our online family to more of your stuff. So I know that they can go to www.BiblicalParenting.com or www.BiblicalParenting.org. I’m sorry I don't remember off the top of my head.
Scott Turansky: I own both of them. They both go www.BiblicalParenting.org.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, there you go.
Scott Turansky: So I'd start there because that's our main one. We have seven websites. But let's just start there because I don't direct the other ones. But go to www.BiblicalParenting.org, you can sign up for free email parenting tips. You can get those right away. I have a new e-book thats out. You can find out…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, tell us about the e-book because I was so impressed by the e-book. Share with us a little bit about that.
Scott Turansky: All right. This is an e-book that’s entitled Equipping Children To Self-Regulate Emotions. So in this ebook, which is free right now, you can download it from my website.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Scott Turansky: And you can get some insight into what this looks like to understand what the heart is, what emotions are all about. And then some practical ideas of moving in some directions to help children self-regulate their emotions.
There's a lot of misunderstanding about this issue and so we bring several principles into this picture that helps parents strategically to be able to address this. All the things that we've talked about today, you can find that on www.BiblicalParenting.org and search there. Especially look at the… if you want to find things faster on my website, go down to the site map at the bottom.
Joshua Boswell: Oh at the bottom. Yeah, cool.
Scott Turansky: That's what I put there for myself. So I can say, Yeah, just… There’s 500 pages on this website. So I can go down to the bottom and find the Heart Work material or find the Child Behavior inventory or find the Coaching Program. It's all there at the bottom and that'll take you to links to the other websites or even on that website to find what you want.
Joshua Boswell: I love it.
Margie Boswell: Wow.
Joshua Boswell: So for anyone listening, we strongly, exclamation point, underscore, bold caps, strongly encourage… Go to www.BiblicalParenting.org, and start by downloading the book, right? Grab the ebook. It's free like Scott said, and grab that, and then start immersing yourself in this.
Because, what I'm hearing is, if Margie and I… and this will sound braggadocious, but if Margie and I, who have been tutored and mentored by the Lord for our 28 years of marriage, and raising, our 11 children have gleaned enormous amount of wisdom from Scott, it's probable that everybody could.
And so, we really encourage you to go and check it out, and dive into it and see how the Lord can bless you and your family and your children through this process and the structure that Scott has put together.
So, Scott, what a joy this has been. Thank you for your insights, your generosity of your time, and your wisdom. We really appreciate it. And how grateful we are to God for inspiring you so many years ago in Hawaii to work with those kids and pull those two other experts together and start down this journey.
Marg8e Boswell: Start down it.
Joshua Boswell: And for the courage of being faithful to it for 45+ years of your life, it's just incredible. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.
Scott Turansky: Well thank you, Joshua and Margie. I just appreciate your ministry and I just wish you the best as you bless families. This has been a fun interview for me, just I get excited about these things.
Joshua Boswell: So great.
Scott Turansky: Grateful for what you're doing as well.
Joshua Boswell: So great. Well take care and we'll talk to you again another time.
Margie Boswell: Thank you.
Scott Turansky: All right. God bless you guys.
Joshua Boswell: God bless.
Joshua Boswell: Okay. Bye now.
Joshua Boswell: Bye.