Podcast Transcript
Attendees:
Joshua Boswell, Margie Boswell, Ashley Wiggers
Transcript:
Joshua Boswell: Hello friends, welcome to the Happy Family Club podcast we're delighted to have you here today. And today we're gonna talk about a topic that Margie and I have been extremely, underscore, exclamation point, passionate about for 28, almost 30 years now. And in working with all of our 11 children, it is just… we have found an extreme amount of joy in this particular topic. So we're gonna dive into it deep with our expert guest, Ashley Wiggers. So thank you so much for being here today.
Margie Boswell: Yes!
Ashley Wiggers: Thank you for having me.
Margie Boswell: We sure appreciate you being here with us and taking that time.
Joshua Boswell: You want to give her a formal introduction?
Margie Boswell: Yeah, sure! Ashley is amazing. She grew up in the homeschooling movement and so grew up as being homeschooled which is unique for nowadays. But she was taught by her late mother, Debbie Strayers, who was an educator and speaker and author of a lot of different homeschooling materials. And it was through her mom's encouragement and love that Ashley really learned to love and value homeschooling. So, currently Ashley the co-executive editor of Homeschooling Today magazine, which I have gone through and is so beautifully, so well done.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Thank you.
Margie Boswell: You're amazing.
Joshua Boswell: Gorgeous work. It's really good.
Margie Boswell: Beautiful work. And also public relations director of Geography Matters, which is a really neat resource for so many homeschooling families. And Profiles of History series, the author of that.
Joshua Boswell: How many in that series now, Ashley? Because I think I saw two or three.
Ashley Wiggers: I have three of them, mm-hmm.
Joshua Boswell: Three of them? Wow. Okay. We need… Sadly, we're not… until we started researching we weren't familiar with that. So we have to repent and get it and dive into it. I mean we love love, that kind of stuff. History is awesome.
Margie Boswell: Ashley lives in Florida, Tampa area I guess, with her father and her husband and three children.
Ashley Wiggers: That's right.
Margie Boswell: And we're just super excited to talk with you about all these wonderful things that you've been working on.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Well thank you. It's really an honor to be here with you guys and get to talk about something that I am so passionate about, encouraging other families with and helping them realize that they can do it.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: That's kind of… my husband and I actually were both homeschooled. And so we like to say that we're living proof that you can do this.
Joshua Boswell: Right!
A: And it's gonna be okay.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Because I think there are some days where you feel like maybe everything is not going to turn out the way you thought it would.
Joshua Boswell: Right!
Ashley Wiggers: But you all never had days like that. I'm sure.
Joshua Boswell: Ohh… yeah. So I like to tell people, sometimes people will say, I just don't know that I'm smart enough or can figure it out, like homeschooling. And I'm like, well look at me. Like, wow. If I could figure this out, seriously, I mean, I'm the poster child of the dumbest dad in the world who can homeschool. So there you go. A lot of fun.
So I'm interested... I want to hear some of your backstory a little bit because I remember, I mean a couple different things. When I first met Margie, homeschooling was the furthest thing for my mind. In fact, I had known some people in high school and the family was super dysfunctional. And I say that in a loving way, I'm not being rude at all there, but they had a lot of struggles, and they homeschooled. And that was my paradigm. I was like, if you homeschool you are a super dysfunctional family. And it was like the pot calling the kettle black because I came from a super dysfunctional family, but that’s a different story.
And when we met, Margie's like hey, I really think we ought to homeschool. I’m like, are you out of your mind? And so I evolved through that process. But I’d be really interested to hear if you have insights… So first of all your background, but starting with do you have some insights on why your parents, particularly your mother, decided to do that? Because we have good friends in the 80s who started homeschooling and they literally got threatened with being thrown in jail. They had to move out of state because of the legal ramifications. So, your mom was kind of in that swirl of crazy environment. I just wonder what drove her to be such an advocate for it?
Ashley Wiggers: So both of my parents were educators and they never planned on homeschooling. That was not something that they thought, Oh, we should homeschool our kids.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: But when my brother was little and he turned around school age and my mom being a teacher knew what the classroom was like and she knew what kind of experience he was going to have, and she just looked at this little boy who loved digging in the dirt. He loved playing and being outside, but he hated holding a pencil and he thought that if he had to write something that he was being punished. So she knew that they would tell him to sit down to be quiet. You know… No, don't do that. No, don’t go there. And that he would lose his love of learning.
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm.
Ashley Wiggers: So she just couldn't let that happen. So she brought up homeschooling to my dad and they thought about it and prayed about it and felt like that was the best thing to do for my brother. And I'm so grateful they did because then I come along.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And I have a learning disability. I have a visual perceptual processing disorder, which is just a long way of saying that my eyes and my brain don't work together quite like everyone else's.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So for me to be homeschooled and to not be in an environment where there's limits or theres, you know, You're not able to do that, you need to sit over here. You're not normal.
Joshua Boswell: Right. Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Then that would have been really devastating, I think, to who I would become. But because my parents… they nurtured a love of learning in both me and my brother and we learn together as a family. So I still love learning today because of the way that I was taught. And I know that if I had been in another situation, I don't think I would have loved learning. I don't think I would have felt successful as a learner. Because yes, I do learn differently. It does take me longer, with comprehension and longer to learn how to read, longer to ride a bike. There were just things that came in a different form for me because of the learning difference I have. And because I grew up in this environment and this atmosphere of, You're growing at your own rate.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Ashley Wiggers: And God made you the way He made you. So you're exactly where you need to be. That was the message I received all throughout my childhood. And that's really the reason I am where I am now.
Joshua Boswell: That is amazing.
Margie Boswell: Beautiful.
Joshua Boswell: I want to dive deeper into some of that and how that showed up in your life. But what a powerful thing it is. And this is something we felt so strongly about forever, is just that each of these children come to us so individual and so unique. And taking them and conforming them into a set box… I mean it is… Anyway, I won't get off on that right now, maybe later. But tell us a little bit about … So your process, I mean you came from a homeschool family and then you married your husband… Greg? Craig? I’m sorry, I just forgot his name. No…
Ashley Wiggers: Alex, actually. Yeah…
Margie Boswell: Alex. Greg is her father.
Joshua Boswell: Greg's your dad!
Ashley Wiggers: That's right.
Joshua Boswell: I knew there was a Greg in there somewhere. Alex. Tell Alex Sorry I just forgot his name.
Ashley Wiggers: That's okay.
Joshua Boswell: I get my children's name wrong, and I tell them it's a sign of love because I'm just processing. So you met Alex… so kind of pick us up on the story of what happened between the two of you and then of course now you've got children and there were decisions to start homeschooling. And what kind of thoughts/feelings and whatnot did you guys go through to kind of get to the point where you're at today?
Ashley Wiggers: Okay, so we actually met at a Homeschool Convention.
Joshua Boswell: Awesome!
A: Which… At the time we were both 18 and so, even though I was homeschooled, I thought I was way cooler than all these other homeschoolers and that was not my intention to find a homeschool person to marry.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: But we met at the convention. He was there helping his parent’s business, which is Geography Matters. And I was there with my mom. She was speaking and selling her materials. And so I would go over there pretending to look at the geography curriculum and he would come over pretending to look at the products we had. And his parents and my mom could see that there was a spark here. And so they actually… I don't know who invited who, but we ended up going out to dinner together. And what a great way to get to know each other with his parents there and my mom and it was just this beautiful story that emerged. We started to talk on the phone because it was long distance. And so we had a long distance relationship for three years before we got married. And it's just… God is the only one who can write these stories.
Joshua Boswell: Yes!
A: I mean really. But once we got married we knew homeschooling was gonna be the way that we wanted to educate our children. Because, his experience… His mom really enabled him to learn how to think critically and she didn't try to fit him into a box and he's very creative. He's very smart. And so she let him do those things that brought him to life. So he would even build Rube Goldberg machines outside, you know, where something hits something and that triggers this and that goes down the slide. And so he would do those kinds of things.
He would build forts. He would be outside for long periods of the day because he was learning during that time and there were so many things happening for him, you know, cognitively. And we think kids are just playing. But what they're really doing is they're being creative. They're using their imagination. They're finding out who they are. There's so much more happening there. And I really think that we've lost some of that in this day and age where kids are not encouraged to be outside and to play and to really learn and grow in that natural way.
We try to come along as adults and say, Oh, this is how you should grow. This is what you need to do to learn and really God has put so much in us already that there's this natural curiosity and this natural bend towards learning and growing already. And we can kind of foster that, we can help it. But a lot of times parents I think end up stifling it because they think it should happen in a certain way.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, that's so profound.
Margie Boswell: So true.
Joshua Boswell: And I'm actually gonna make a note because I want to come back to that. But it's true. I mean, we get stuck in our paradigm and our perspective. And sometimes we don't partner enough with God to say, Okay, actually help me see that child and what they need and how I can get out of the way and let them grow, right?
A: Mm-hm.
Joshua Boswell: And we're big proponents of outdoor stuff. I mean you can see… This is our backyard. There's a river back here. And we just love…
Margie Boswell: Exploring.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah we moved out for a reason. So awesome. Well that's an amazing, amazing story and I think that there's a lot of cool lessons in there. So first of all, thank you for being so aware of your children having the faith and the courage to pursue that. Because it's amazing and it's such a crazy, awesome gift for your children. It's really cool.
Ashley Wiggers: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: And for you as a human being, too. I mean the rewards are reciprocal, at least I think so, when we homeschool.
Ashley Wiggers: Absolutely. We learn… God is homeschooling us while we're homeschooling our kids, right?
Joshua Boswell: Oh, man. Yes. I've been taken to task many times to learn lots of things in this process. Not Margie. Margie's like Mary Poppins. She's practically perfect in every way. It’s amazing.
Margie Boswell: No, no, no. Learning as we go.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. So tell us… I want to get to the question we're kind of famous for and that is, What's a key element or principle that you see that creates a happy family? So let's talk about that a little bit and then see where that goes and I'd love to dig deeper into homeschool stuff as well. So what are your thoughts on that question about a happy family?
Ashley Wiggers: Well when I think of a happy family, I really think about doing life together.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Ashley Wiggers: You eat together, you wake up and you talk about the day. We like to sit on the back porch and our kids are little enough now where they'll still snuggle, and so we kind of snuggle our way in the beginning of the day. And I love that. I love that homeschooling provides us the freedom to wake up slowly. To not be rushed and hurried to start something or to get out the door to get dressed. You know… you really can't hurry a toddler. I've tried. It doesn't work.
Margie Boswell: Yeah, yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So I really appreciate the fact that we don't have to do that every morning. I think that creates a lot of hectic, chaos for families that do have to do that every day.
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm.
A: And so I'm grateful for that. And I think doing life together means, for us with homeschooling incorporated, it's also learning together as a family. And I get the joy of being able to help my son love learning.
Margie Boswell: Mmm.
A: It's not a job to me to have to do, it's something I get to do.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And that's our big mission with what we do with Homeschooling Today and what my mom passed on to me, is this whole idea that... This is a gift. Time is precious. And we really learned that when I was 27, she passed away unexpectedly. And so the time that we got to spend together in my childhood is so precious to me. And she could have made it about academics. She could have made it about, Hey, we've got to get all these things done and we're just gonna check this stuff off the list and then you can go do what you want.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: But it was never like that. It was… it was an opportunity to learn together as a family. So we did the experiments and the messy things… not every day. But when we could, we read outside, we went to the park, learning was an adventure and something that I look back on with such fondness. And so I'm trying to help families regain that.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So that they're not stressed out and they're not trying to fit everything in and do all the extra-curriculars. Because we think that's impressive, and we want our kids to be set up for success, so we think, Well you've got to do the language lessons and the music classes and all these things that we get so busy that we miss the moments that are really these beautiful natural family moments that God made us for. And when you slow down enough to enjoy those times with your kids, you can really see the benefit of them.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Margie Boswell: I love that.
Joshua Boswell: I just want to shout, Amen and Hallelujah. Like that’s so profound what you're talking about here. It's a radical idea what you're suggesting, and that is that families were created by God. And that Mom and Dad have this opportunity to have a huge impact in the child's life. And the children actually want to have influence and connection with Mom and Dad, and spend time with them. And that the more time together the more we can foster those great relationships and strengthen each other…. That's crazy, Ashley. Wow, what a radical you are.
Ashley Wiggers: Right? I know.
Margie Boswell: We love it!
Ashley Wiggers: Today, it seems like you can't do this yourself. They keep trying to take away our confidence in our ability to raise our own children and to educate them. But the truth is you don't need an educational background to homeschool.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: You don't need X, Y and Z. You're the expert on your child because no one loves them more than you do and no one will be more invested in their future than you are. And did you know that we actually absorb information better when we have a good connection with the person who's teaching us?
Margie Boswell: Mmm.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
A: What better person, then, to teach than a mom or a dad who loves them unconditionally.
Joshua Boswell: Yes, absolutely.
Margie Boswell: That’s so great.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, I mean the emotional position that you hold with another person is so impactful on what you learn, and your attitude toward learning. You used the phrase a couple of times “love of learning.” And I’d like for you to talk a little bit more about that if you can, because… Actually, I do want to talk about that. And I also want to talk about this idea about, you know, a key to family happiness is together time.
A: Mm-hmm.
Joshua Boswell: I think that there are… Man that is such a lost element of our society. It's like, how soon can we get them out of the house and into somebody else's world? And then we think that we can build relationships… We know a family right now. Mom works. Dad works. They all go to school. The mom and dad are both going back to school to get different degrees. And the teenage children are like we never see Mom and Dad.
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And I'm thinking, How are you developing relationships with each in that environment? You’re not. You can't.
Ashley Wiggers: Right.
Joshua Boswell: Anyway, so let's first go to love of learning, because I want to dive deep into that. And then I want to talk about the relationship factor.
Ashley Wiggers: Sure. So in order to have a love of learning, I think you have to see education completely differently than what typically people think of it as. So a traditional perspective on education is that learning happens when you're sitting quietly at a desk… you know, reading or doing your assignments?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: No. I mean children… I mean think about your children. Learning for us happens when we're outside investigating things in nature or when we're reading together on the couch and one of them is upside down and one of them is building with blocks, but they're all listening and we have great conversations and they're involved in what they're learning about. I'm not talking at them. We're learning together.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And they're active participants in what we're doing. And I think that makes all the difference because what has happened in educational situations where people are just trying to… what, pass a test, I guess? Or fill in… like, if you fill in more information, your child will be smarter. You just have to stuff it in there.
Joshua Boswell: Stuff it in harder.
Ashley Wiggers: I mean, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. And what happens is children don't want to perpetuate that with their own children.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So… Okay. There's two homeschool families that I know of. Real life homeschool families. And one of them decided that they were going to make their learning time… every moment had to count. And so the mom was always looking for the very best curriculum to use. They switched lots of times because when something new came out she was worried… Well maybe this is better than what we're doing. We need to add this in.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Ashley Wiggers: All their time was scheduled so they're always doing the extra curricular things. And it was about results. I mean really when you're doing it that way it's about a result. You're trying to perform and create these little smart… I don't know, Christian Soldiers. So this other family decided that they were going to make it about learning together. Enjoying it. It was going to be a journey that they went on as a family. So it was messy sometimes and they tried to make sure that the heart was at the center of what they were doing. So it was a more gentle approach. Because if you're trying to educate that way, you can't just be a taskmaster.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So it's a more gentle approach and everybody is… The priorities are Faith, Family, Academics. Right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So if you mix up those priorities then kids get left behind. And so the result here is that the first family who really focused on achievement, none of the children who have graduated and have kids of their own have decided to homeschool.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Because why would they? They didn't receive any kind of special situation. They just did school at home…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And my parents are now the ones forcing me to do it.
Margie Boswell: Mmm-hm.
A: So the other family who really focused on, Hey, we'll play games together, that’s how we’ll learn. We'll go outside, that's how we'll learn. We'll read together as a family. All of the children who have children of their own now are homeschooling their kids and they're choosing to live close by to their parents, which I think is wonderful.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
A: So you have the result here that these kids who grew up in a loving environment where, okay school is important, but it's not the most important thing. You're the most important thing. Our relationship is the most important thing. Knowing God is the most important thing. All of that, it comes through our daily decisions.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
A: So if we're seeing School through that lens we're going to do it differently.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Margie Boswell: That’s beautiful.
Joshua Boswell: And I think that what you're talking about here, this heart centered thing, it centers on what you talked about this, God, Family, then Academics. And I think that I would probably even address that in a slightly, adjusted way. And that is simply like God, Family and Life! Growth!
Margie Boswell: Right.
Joshua Boswell: People say to us, like, Oh… you homeschool, so you taking this summer off? I'm like shh… Don't tell. There's not a summer break. It's called life. It's like they're just learning and growing and developing and becoming and it’s just… It's like, what does God need me to do and want me to do now and let's go and explore it and figure it out, right?
Ashley Wiggers: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And it's not like you're a failure.
Margie Boswell: 9-5, we're sitting at a desk doing math and homeschool. You know? That’s not how we do it.
Joshua Boswell: We definitely don’t do that. No. So I love that love. Instilling that love in them. You said something else I think is really important that we should not overlook, and that is, this other family, we'll call them Family B. The heart centered family. The Family B, you mentioned their children actually, not only want to homeschool, but they want to live around each other. And…
Margie Boswell: Because of the relationship they built.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, we have seen… So we have adult children now.
Ashley Wiggers: Mm-hmm
Joshua Boswell: And a number of them have moved off and are at school. But it's so amazing because even there, we’ve got six of them…?
Margie Boswell: Yeah six.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah we have six of them out there, plus spouses. And they like… they just swirl around each other. They are each other's best friends and world. And they talk about, when the time's right, they'll move back and they want to live closer. And just it's amazing to see the love that they have for each other. And Ashley, you're right. It's like we don't see that in other circumstances. Yeah.
It's not really on the love of learning topic, but another thing comes to my mind in terms of what you're talking about. And I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but about 23 years ago, I was the executive director for the Montana Republican Party. And so in that position… very conservative State, at the time extremely conservative. But at the time, that meant I did a lot of lobbying. And I met with a lot of legislators and I met with a lot of other lobbyists.
And one day I found myself in this meeting for school stuff. State education stuff with the state superintendent and handful of other players. And there was another group there and they were talking about school curriculum. And what they wanted to instill into school curriculum. And they had this very open, aggressive, agenda of what we now call the woke agenda. Wasn't invented 23 years ago, but it was like, we're gonna sit them down and we're gonna force these children to learn about sexuality. And to learn about inappropriate marriages in gender confusion and all kinds of stuff.
And I was in this meeting, Ashley. And I'm thinking… I was like, blown away. Like whaaat?! And I was like, this will never happen. Are you crazy? You can't teach kindergarten about gender identity stuff and sexual behavior and pornography. It's like… never. And I expressed my opposition here. I'm taking too long in this story, but I expressed my serious opposition. And the one guy looked over at me. He said you know what? Your problem is, you Conservatives think you just have to do it all in one fell swoop. He says, We don't mind taking 20 or 30 years to do this. We'll get there.
Ashley Wiggers: Wow.
Joshua Boswell: And I was like… WOW.
Margie Boswell: And now we see they have.
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And so, again… and I don't want to go too far down this road. But there's an aspect of homeschooling and happy families that relates to solid mental health. Living truth.
Ashley Wiggers: Mm-hmm
Joshua Boswell: Following goodness. And as parents, when we bring our children into our home, we have this incredible blessing of surrounding their life with that. I mean you starting the day off snuggling with your children. Ahhh… Crazy!
Ashley Wiggers: Right.
Joshua Boswell: It's amazing.
Ashley Wiggers: So, okay. What's really happening in the country? And it's a fight over identity.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: They want the identity of our children to be confused. To not know who they are. I mean when I say “they” it's really our ultimate enemy, right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
A: The father of lies.
Joshua Boswell: Yes, that's right.
Ashley Wiggers: And so what we get to do is raise our kids knowing who they are in Christ.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: And we do that regularly. We talk about… especially when they make mistakes, especially when we discipline, we need to talk about not just, What was this behavior? This is not the right thing to do. But also, That's not who you are. Who you are is in Christ. And the Bible says that we are the righteousness of God in Christ.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: So being able to establish that in my children and teach them about who God made them to be… And that sometimes our behavior doesn't reflect the true nature of our identity, but that doesn't change who we are.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So it's a little bit backwards. I think growing up in a church setting, my husband and I both had kind of more of an experience where the focus is really on the behavior. And if your behavior is this that and the other, you're kind of thrown to the side, right? Well, okay. The truth, is I want to raise my children to know that if we are born again in Christ, right? If we accept that free gift of the Cross, then now I'm in Christ and the fruit of His nature is going to come through me.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: And so we can focus on establishing that in their lives. And that when they get met with these questions of identity and different things, then they're gonna go, Well this is who I am.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: This is who I am. That's not who I am.
Margie Boswell: Right.
A: And there's so much confusion out there that our kids are going to need to have a firm foundation in knowing who they are.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Totally.
Joshua Boswell: And there is… it's a hundred percent impossibility that they're going to get that… it was well meaning, and I know some public school teachers. I love them. I think some of them are Saints. They're trying hard to do good things in the environment where they're at. But they cannot teach what you just taught.
Ashley Wiggers: Right.
Joshua Boswell: Even most private schools cannot anchor that child… And the other thing is that they're not hardwired to their child to be able to teach that kind of truth. It's just not there. So I love that. It reminds me… Isaiah talks in a prophecy about Christ, he says, Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know the good and eskew the evil, right?
A: Mm-hm.
Joshua Boswell: And that's exactly what you're talking about. When we know the good, we know the truth about who we are and our children know their true identity as children of God, and being in Christ? It changes everything for them.
Ashley Wiggers: It does.
Margie Boswell: Well, and they have the butter and honey. They have been surrounded with so much good that then when they see the evil there, it doesn't look appealing at all to them. You know?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Mm-hm. That's true.
Margie Boswell: It's nice.
Joshua Boswell: Wow. I think we're on track for this to be my favorite interview ever, Ashley. You're amazing.
Ashley Wiggers: Aww. Thank you.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, so many great insights. So let's talk... There's one other thing about love of learning that I want to talk about. And you deal with a lot of homeschool families and moms and parents. Probably all different levels. And I wonder what your perspective is in terms of how that love of learning impacts their teenage behavior and then adult behavior and how that carries into the future? What is that… If you plant that love of learning in the child, what’s the fruit of that? What does that look like down the road?
Ashley Wiggers: Well I think of especially my husband. He thinks he can figure out anything. And he pretty much can with the information that's available on the internet. He will fix something that broke in the car. He will try to… I think he fixed our air conditioner one time. He figures it out because his dad would actually have him take things apart. And so let's say an old printer broke, they would take it all completely apart.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And they would talk about how it worked. And then he would put it back together. And so there's this element of common sense in doing life together that happens with homeschooling that I think really prepares you to feel like, Hey, if I don't know how to do this, I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna learn. I’m gonna try. Instead of this learned helplessness that we kind of get when we're just filling in blanks.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
A: Which is a lot of times what school ends up being when you're focused on that result driven perspective. You're just filling in blanks. You need to know the right answer, but you don't need to know anything else.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
A: Well, that's not going to get you very far in this world.
Joshua Boswell: No, it’s not.
A: So loving to learn enables you to keep learning whatever it is that you need for your future.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, so powerful. You made me think of two things. One is, there's a book called The Talent Code. And the premise of the book is that he poses the questions like, are people just born with natural talents or do we learn stuff? What's that thing? And then when do we stop learning stuff? And he does amazing research on the neuroscience behind this. And he's like, First of all, you never stop learning. As long as you're breathing, you have the ability to create what are called myelin sheaths and synaptic gaps and all that stuff that goes on in the neurology. And he says, Second of all, some people are predisposed to certain talents and gifts. Like… I don't think I'm ever gonna be Michael Jordan no matter how hard I practice, right? Because I can't even dribble right now. So I got a long way to go.
But we are predisposed and I think there are God-given gifts. I mean the Bible tells us that all of us are given various gifts to bless other people. Okay, great. But in addition to that, we have the ability to learn. Like your husband. He figured out the printer, he figured out the AC. He figured out the car. Because he can learn. And this goes into one of my interesting thoughts on homeschooling, which is parents that say, I don't know if I can do it. Okay when Marge and I first started homeschooling it was like… we had to call an order catalog. I mean we're ancient, so we had to order catalogs, get something in the mail, flip through it. Think if we could get something. Now it's like… you have Google, people. YouTube.
Ashley Wiggers: Okay.
Joshua Boswell: I mean it's incredible.
Margie Boswell: The internet. Endless store of information. You can learn anything.
Joshua Boswell: Oh yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: That's right.
Joshua Boswell: It's really incredible. So I think that having that ability to learn is a really, really, really powerful thing. The second thing I thought of was, our daughter, who's in College in Utah. She went and got a job, and she's not even 18.
Margie Boswell: She's 17. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And she walks into this job. Now, remember… our children are like your children. And like your husband. We've taught them when you walk into a situation, you can figure stuff out. Look around. Is there a problem? Be proactive. And so she approached this job in this way. First time she's had a real job. She's done a lot of stuff for the family company. But so she's now a retail manager. This is three months into it and she’s a retail manager. She's tripled her pay. They're giving all kinds of responsibility. She's training all the regional managers on stuff. And the difference is that other people come in and they go, What's my job? Just do it. I'm in my box.
A: Mm-hmm.
Joshua Boswell: And she's like, there's no such thing as a box, right?
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah, what needs to be done? Where can I help? I think it's a whole different perspective because they grew up in this team atmosphere at home where everybody pitches in, everybody's helping. And that alone is a whole different point of view, isn't it?
Margie Boswell: It really is.
Joshua Boswell: So powerful. And I think that stems from the love of learning which… And this identity thing you're talking about. When we know that we're children of God. As Paul says, we're joint heirs with Christ. I mean we get these brains. It's cool, right? And we can grow and learn and become. And when you have that perspective plus the love of learning. It's like you turn into this dynamic, amazing, human being who just runs around blessing other people's lives. As opposed to just, I'm just walking through and blessing your own life. As opposed to just walking through the motions.
Ashley Wiggers: That's true. And colleges now… you brought up how people say, I don't know if I can do this thing. Am I smart enough? And so they wonder, too, when homeschool kids graduate. Well how do you get them into college?
Joshua Boswell: Oh yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Which is such a silly question… So colleges are actually searching out for homeschoolers now because we've created such a great reputation of showing up to class and being prepared and doing a good job. So there really is not a fear there. That's a false fear.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And one of the things that my mom always encouraged families… She wrote a book called gaining confidence to teach. Because she, at that time especially, in the early 80s and everything when this was so new, and parents were really worried that they weren't going to be able to do a good enough job for their kids. She came out and said to listen, faithful is He who calls you, who also will bring it to pass. That was her life verse. First Thessalonians 5:24.
Joshua Boswell: So sweet.
Ashley Wiggers: And that foundation is our foundation of homeschooling. It’s not, oh you're gonna make these super smart kids, or everything is going to turn out perfectly. No. It’s if God has called you to this role, then He's going to equip you and lead you. And you know what? You're gonna have bumps in the road. And you're not gonna know what to do all the time. But I think He likes it when we're in that position because His word says, My sheep know my voice.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: And so we get to hear from the Lord of what direction we need to go in for our kids and what curriculum to use and what rhythm to take up. So, that's one of the biggest things that we get to do with our platform is to encourage families that, Hey you can do this. And the Lord is leading you in the right path for your family. So you don't have to walk in fear because the fear thing is what really keeps us from doing what's best for our kids.
Joshua Boswell: Amen.
Margie Boswell: That’s right.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly. So, let's talk about that for just a minute. Maybe we can talk about some… I probably got off on too many…
Margie Boswell: Tangents?
Joshua Boswell: Tangent, ethereal things. But let's talk about the logistics for just a moment. What are some practical ways that parents can create this environment in their home? Number one to set it up for homeschooling, number two to engender this love of learning and to teach true identity. What are some practical things that can be done there?
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah, so I have to share that when we first started homeschooling, when my mom first set everything up in our home, she did it like a classroom. Because that's what she knew.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Ashley Wiggers: So we had little desks and we had the flag that we said the pledge of allegiance to. And that's what she knew. But over time she realized that there's so much more that you can do. Because of the freedom you have, and because your unique children need a unique education.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: And so your family rhythm is going to be something that you have to find. And no one can say to you, Oh, this is exactly how you need to do it. If you're doing it exactly like someone else, that's the only time that you're wrong.
Joshua Boswell: You’re wrong. Right!
Margie Boswell: There you go!
Ashley Wiggers: Because God made all of us unique and so we need to find that “right way” of setting up our home as a home base of learning and life. So for us, we kind of start the day off with getting getting outside, getting the wiggles out. Since my kids are still young, that's important. And we've realized now with research that kids are actually creating neural pathways when they're outside, moving.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Those big motor movements are helping them prepare them for reading. You don't realize it and it's hard to see that. But that's really the reality of what's going on. So getting our kids outside is part of the learning process.
Joshua Boswell: Hmm.
A: And that sensory development that they get to have with listening and feeling different textures and just enjoying creation. There's so many beautiful, wonderful things that are happening when we make that a big part of our life together. So we always do that. And then we usually read kind of a devotional and then some books that are kind of the season or whatever we’re working on at that time. We'll read together and have snacks. And allow that to be an enjoyable moment. Because I think when you're enjoying the process together, hat's what creates that lifetime learning mentality that we want our kids to have.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And so beyond that, we try to incorporate art and crafts and things that they can do with their hands and make. And being creative, being imaginative is such a big part of developing our thought processes. And discussion. Talking with our kids about what they're learning is also really huge. So my mom was a big proponent of Charlotte Mason's theories for education and also Dr. Ruth Beechick. Dr. Beechick was an expert in education, but she… When homeschooling came along, she was like, Oh my gosh, this is what's best for children.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So even though she was an expert in education, she could see the value and the benefit of actually kids being in a relaxed environment where they're not being pressured, but they can be who they are and learn together with someone who loves them. She was like, It's a no-brainer. Of course, that's the best situation for kids to learn.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
A: So if you've never heard of Dr. Ruth Beechick, or anyone listening, she's a wonderful resource. She's written lots of different books on homeschooling. One of them is called, You Can Teach Your Child Successfully.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Ashley Wiggers: It's fantastic. And she really wrote about just kind of those common sense things. Simplifying learning so that we're not thinking it's this over-complicated something that only experts can understand. So I would highly recommend that. And also Charlotte Mason has a really great approach to learning. And she talks a lot about nature. She talks a lot about the different things that make language learning natural. Like narration, copywork, these different tools that homeschoolers can use to make learning happen in a more natural way.
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm. Powerful. Okay, I'm gonna look at resources and make sure we post stuff for each of them. Because I actually am not familiar with either of those…
Margie Boswell: Charlotte Mason, I've looked into her stuff.
Joshua Boswell: Margie, of course, is familiar with all these, because she's… and I'm going to learn and become familiar with those things. Thanks babe.
Joshua Boswell: So… Ahh…!
Margie Boswell: Are we running out of time?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, I want to talk about two other things really quick. So one thing that comes up…. actually three things. If we can address three things really fast in terms of practical sense. One is, we've touched on it a little bit, but just the legitimate stress… so not necessarily the fear of, can I do it? But the stress and strain. Because there is… you know. Being home, in each other's space, it puts you way higher on the scale of, Man, I got up my game as a parent. I need to connect with these children. It's so much different than just saying, Oh… School? Teacher? You guys take care of them for these eight hours, and I'm gonna do something else.
So I wonder if you have thoughts in terms of just the parents ability… Or some best practices for managing that stress and the heightened… It's not really… I have a hard time saying pressure. I say pressure because I think other parents might feel that way. I've never felt that, because I think that to me it's always been a gift that we get to be with the children. But I think that some people coming into it might feel like there's heightened pressure here.
Margie Boswell: Stress.
Joshua Boswell: And increased stress. Do you have any insights on how the parents can manage that?
Ashley Wiggers: Well, I think one of the first things that needs to happen is the relational aspect between you and your kids and your kids and each other.
Joshua Boswell: Hmm.
Ashley Wiggers: So if you're really creating a foundation of… kind of mutual care between each other that helps immensely. Because I think a lot of times we can get zeroed in on those things. Like, we want to accomplish something, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Ashley Wiggers: I mean as humans, we just want to get things done. We have this list of things that we want to go through and get them done. And so when you're homeschooling, a lot of times you have to set your list aside, you have to pivot. Because kids are kids and they're not going to just follow along with your schedule on a lot of occasions. Now, I have younger kids. So maybe as they get older they get better at that. But I think we have to be willing to set aside our list in order to handle the character things that are happening. And helping our kids function well together as a family.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm-hmm.
A: And then a lot of times that pressure or chaos or the fighting and things like that that can really create the stress in the home, that handles itself. So if we're looking at it with those priorities intact, that this is about us learning how to do this life together as a family. We've got food that needs to be made. We need to make sure that our environment we're working in isn't a total mess.
Joshua Boswell: Yep!
A: We need to find rhythms, right? Because when your kids are home all day, there's a lot of times that we need to clean up again. Or before we get that next thing out, we need to pick this up right? So there's just this… And it happens as you go. Nobody knows exactly what to do all the time.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
A: So that alone really removes the pressure. It's not all on our shoulders to figure this thing out. We have the Lord to help us and as we keep taking those steps, one day at a time, He'll help us figure out what that looks like for our family.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. And I think it’s like also important… So, first of all, I love this permission you’re giving. It’s like, we don’t have to have it all figured out. And we don’t have to all stress. And we can start with the relationship. So that… you know, what’s the old expression? Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care?
Ashley Wiggers: Right!
Joshua Boswell: Well guess what? Applicable to parents. 411, right there. I think too that… So, taking time to build the relationships is fine. I think the other thing that I hear parents do is they feel like they’re getting behind. OH… I don’t know. If we don’t have the daily thing we’re gonna get behind. They’re not in their grade level, they’re… you know. And they have this paradigm of what it is. And I just want to encourage parents to just set all that aside.
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: First of all, there’s no actual like, You have to be to whatever level in life. And I’m always reminded, like… when you go to the doctor, you don’t ask them when they graduated, what their grades were, what their GPA was. Like… You just hope they have the skill set.
Margie Boswell: Do you know how to do it?
Joshua Boswell: Do you have the skill set? That’s what I’m worried about.
Margie Boswell: Mm-hmm.
Joshua Boswell: So there’s no actual “behind” in my opinion. I think the other thing that’s important is recognizing that sometimes to slow down is to speed up. And when we engender love of learning, like one of our children… We had two of our children express interest in learning piano. So there was a gal we went to church with and she was like, Yeah, I’ll do piano lessons. So we thought, Oh, if two of them want to, then surely the third is gonna want to too. Well wow, guess what?
Ashley Wiggers: No.
Margie Boswell: The third child did not want to. He went to a couple lessons and came home and was like, I don't like it! And I didn't want to be the mom that was forcing them every day to do something they didn’t want to do.
Ashley Wiggers: Mm-hmm
Margie Boswell: So I said, no problem. You don't need to do that.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. We focused on strengthening the relationship there. Well, fast forward…
Margie Boswell: Five six years later, there's his brother playing at church and all the girls are gathered around watching.
Joshua Boswell: They're teenagers now, right?
Margie Boswell: They're teenagers and he's like, maybe I want to learn the piano now. And you know, within a month he had learned how to play hymns for church. Within one month he taught himself to play the piano because he had the motivation.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Margie Boswell: And just the latency. It was slower, and the desire was a little slower, but when they have the desire to learn, they can learn things so fast.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: Exactly.
Margie Boswell: If it’s us pushing it on him, they're pushing back. I don't want to do this.
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah, and then you're damaging the relationship when you do that. And so if we're thinking relationship first, then we wouldn't want to do that with our kids.
Joshua Boswell: totally
Ashley Wiggers: You know, we actually have growth spurts in our cognitive ability just like we do in our physical ability.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And so there are some years that kids move more slowly. They don't pick things up as quickly because they're kind of in that lull in between a growth spurt.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And then there are other years where things come fast and they catch up or whatever. Not that they're behind, but just that you don't know what's coming for your child. You don't know when they're going to make those leaps and jumps. And so if you're in a lull moment, well then we need to really believe in faith. That if we're doing what that child needs right now, we're doing the right thing. You can't force your child to learn how to walk, right?
Margie Boswell: Mm-hmm.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Ashley Wiggers: They do it in their own timing. We're developmental beings. That's how we were made. So with my learning challenges, my parents had to kind of rest in that God made me, and at the right time things would start to click and happen. And they did.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And it doesn't always look like that. Sometimes these challenges take longer. But the reality is, if we're resting and finding our peace in that God made this child. And if what I'm doing is meeting them where they're at right now and what they're capable of, then we're doing the right thing.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And no one can move me from that place.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: That's the kind of boldness we really should have to fight for our kids.
Joshua Boswell: Totally.
Ashley Wiggers: And what they're capable of right now. So, my mom when we were little we would go to these book gatherings. It was like our homeschool Co-op. And so you get together and share about a book that you had read. And then you get this pizza coupon. So it was a lot of fun. But I just didn't have the confidence at that age… I'm a shy young girl, learning challenges and all that. And so I just couldn't get out in front of everyone and do it. And my mom said, Well what if I stood next to you and hold the book and you talk about it?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: And I was like, yeah, I can do that. So she did. And to me, that's the hallmark of homeschooling right there. It’s having a heart for your child, not being embarrassed if they need you to do something for them that maybe is slightly uncomfortable and other kids' parents don't need that. But I did, and she stood next to me. And soon enough… I don't know if it was the next time or a couple times later, I didn't need her to stand next to me and I had the confidence to do it myself. But I just think that example of her being willing to do what I needed and to help me slowly move into the place of confidence, right? That's so vitally important for our children that we meet them where they need us.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: And the fact that she did that is why I am where I am today. So that's always something that we have to keep in mind is, What do my children need? Am I adding too much because of my own insecurities? Because I want them to look a certain way?
Margie Boswell: There you go. Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: As homeschoolers we get to have the freedom to do it a different way.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: I so agree with that.
Joshua Boswell: So agree with it. And I would say… I would say to any parent that has that comparative… you know. Was looking around and making comparisons. Like their child's more ahead, or I'm not giving enough, or… Our children don't do band and soccer and football and all the curriculum… I must be a terrible parent.
I want to watch to just encourage you to step back for just a second. Let's go back to this identity thing that Ashley was talking about just a minute ago and recognize, Guess what? You are a son or daughter of God. He loves you. And He loves your children. And this is not a comparative race, right? I guarantee you we get up to heaven God's not gonna be like, Were you on the soccer team? Because if you're not on the soccer team, you can't come in. Right? I just want to make sure that's clear.
I just don't think… It's like, you don't play piano? What's wrong with you?! Sorry, you can’t come in. I don't think that conversation is going to be part of the interaction there. And so what matters most is the love, the connection, the true identity.
Margie Boswell: The relationship.
Joshua Boswell: The relationship, and helping our children to see that. But when we as parents are anchored in that, I think that it gives us so much freedom to allow our children to do that. We drop the comparisons. It's so powerful right? It's like, who cares what the Joneses think and what they're doing? They can do what they think is best for their child. I'm gonna do what's best for my child based on what I think God wants. We're all happy. It's fine, right?
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah, and me, as a child even comparing myself to my best friend.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Ashley Wiggers: She was very academic and she could read a book a day. And she actually played the piano and so did I but she played it a lot better than I did. And I just remember my mom really helping me see, You know what? But God made you with this creativity.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: And God made you with this, and yes, He made her with those gifts and talents and those are wonderful, too. But he made you with these.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So instilling that into our kids, giving them the understanding of the unique things that God has placed in them for their future. That staves off that whole comparison trap, doesn't it?
Margie Boswell: Yeah it does.
Joshua Boswell: So powerfully. I know we had… I tell too many stories. We're gonna have to do another interview, Ashley.
Ashley Wiggers: I'm up for it!
Joshua Boswell: One of our daughters, number one she had reading disability, number two she struggled with eyesight. She needed glasses, we took her to an optometrist a couple of times and they were like, she’s fine. Come to find out no, she wasn't fine. So she's having a hard time reading. And so she was a lot older, like she was struggling reading at eight, nine, ten years old. And we just never made a thing about it. It was like, okay.
Margie Boswell: It was fine.
Joshua Boswell: Not that we were totally complicit about it. It was just like, oh, well… different stage, God created you different. But something really powerful happened in that, and that is her ability to have empathy and understand human beings, like other children of God? Off the charts, right?
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So now she's a voracious reader. She just consumes books like crazy. And she understands human nature and individuals in a really deep, powerful way. And we're like, Oh… I am willing to… I mean, already we've seen the way that's blessed for life. But I'm willing to bet as she gets older, think about what a gift that is from God that she was able to focus on that learning. People learning.
Margie Boswell: At such a young age.
Joshua Boswell: At such a young age, and that she didn't have to be in an environment where… she wasn't in the special ed class. There's no labels, people weren't shoving stuff down her throat telling her what a terrible person she was because, you know, you're supposed to read when you're in kindergarten, not when you're in fourth grade, right? It's like none of that stuff.
Ashley Wiggers: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: So at any rate…
Margie Boswell: God gives us weaknesses to allow us to develop other strengths.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Okay, can I ask one other question? And then we better jump into…
Ashley Wiggers: Can I..?
Joshua Boswell: Go ahead, please.
Ashley Wiggers: I was just gonna say that those things that come up that seem like mountains for our kids actually end up creating the character of what God wants them to become.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Ashley Wiggers: And we don’t want our kids to struggle. We don't want to see them go through that. But I know for me I can relate. Because I had to have an extra amount of determination to do something because it was going to take me longer than it was going to take someone else.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Exactly.
Ashley Wiggers: And so that determination was built because of that challenge.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: And if we can realize that in our own families, in our own children, in our own selves that these challenges, these things that we have to overcome are really for God's glory.
Joshua Boswell: Yes. Totally.
Margie Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: Alright, well, we don’t have a lot of time. Can I ask this one more thing? Because it's always the elephant in the room with… It used to be. I got to say it used to be. It isn't as much anymore. In fact, it's the opposite now. But the social thing, right? It's like, Oh… you homeschool your kids? Aren't you worried about their social development?
Ashley Wiggers:
Joshua Boswell: I'd love to hear your inside on that, Ashley.
Ashley Wiggers: Well as you might imagine, I've been asked that many times over my life.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
Ashley Wiggers: And so when people would ask me about that because they found out I was homeschooled. I would say, Well, do I seem that strange to you?
Joshua Boswell: Yep!
Ashley Wiggers: And they'd be like, No. And I'm like, Well there's your answer.
Joshua Boswell: There it is, right.
Ashley Wiggers: I mean, the fact that people think that socialization happens in a group of your peers, while you're supposed to be learning? Does that sound right?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Wiggers: So to me that is just the biggest myth out there about homeschooling. I meet homeschooled kids all the time, who are so socially aware. They care about the kids around them and various ages.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Ashley Wiggers: You know, a lot of times kids don't know how to act around younger or older kids. But homeschoolers often… it doesn't matter the ages. They'll all play together. So to me, I think homeschooling prepares us in such a wonderful way to be socially aware.
Joshua Boswell: Totally. And I agree with that one hundred percent. Margie and I, especially since covid. For whatever reason, there is a shift in people, a little bit. But we've heard over the last couple years people, especially adults will talk to our children, and then they'll say either to the child or to us, Are you homeschooled? Yeah, I could tell because you can interact so well with adults. And you have such good communication skills.
Ashley Wiggers: Mm-hmm
Joshua Boswell: It’s like… wow. That's the change from 20 years ago, right?
Ashley Wiggers: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: Anyway. And I think it's true because you learn how to be aware of other people. You learn about all kinds of compassion things. And the age thing’s a really big deal. It's like you're not pigeon-holed into this group of people who think that their whole world is are you wearing the right logo on your shirt? Are you going to the right party? Are you friends with this person or not? What's your status symbol inside this environment, the school environment? When you get outside of that it's like, Oh… we're human beings that we get to interact with each other. Shocking.
All right, well... we better wrap up. Ashley, so many good insights. I just… Margie and I, we just love the truth and the wisdom that you're sharing. We love what you're doing. For parents listening to this, what's the best way for them to get deeper into your world? I know you've got a magazine. Tell us a little bit about that or any other resources that we can point people to.
Ashley Wiggers: Sure! Thank you so much. So our magazine is called Homeschooling Today. And the website is just www.HomeschoolingToday.com. And our magazine is really meant to come alongside parents and encourage them to keep them going, to remind them of what matters the most.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Ashley Wiggers: So all of our columnists are hand-picked because they're gonna be genuine and authentic. They're going to share about the ups and downs and they're going to always leave you feeling good instead of guilty.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah!
Ashley Wiggers: They're not going to add to your plate. They're actually gonna encourage you that God has called you to this. And the different stories and ways that God has helped them through things will be a testimony to help other families as well. And then we also have Homeschool Boldly Podcasts. Which is a very short podcast that comes out on Monday mornings. And it's just kind of like a jolt of encouragement for parents to get their mindset in the right place for the week ahead.
Joshua Boswell: Beautiful. And those podcasts are awesome. I listened to a dozen of them. It's just beautiful.
Ashley Wiggers: Thank you.
Joshua Boswell: Very very cool. You do a great job on that. So, www.HomeschoolingToday.com, go check it out.
Ashley Wiggers: Thank you.
Joshua Boswell: I think that the biggest thing here is that we are in a time and space where the world and the adversary to all goodness is going crazy. And I think that there's an opportunity for us to push back, especially with our children. And maybe push back the wrong term. Maybe lift up is the better term. And deciding that you're going to partner with God to raise these children, to educate them, to teach them, to equip them, to empower them, to help them put on the armor of God in this crazy world we live in, I think is exactly what homeschooling is about.
And you might feel like it's a big sacrifice at first. But it's actually not. The effort that you put in now will be multiplied a thousand times over in the future in the goodness and the strength of character and the power that you and your children and your family have. It's just… I think there's so much there. So anyway, Ashley, thank you very much for your time today. Thank you for your wisdom. We just so appreciate it's been wonderful.
Margie Boswell: It’s been great.
Ashley Wiggers: Thank you for having me.
Margie Boswell: Yeah!
Joshua Boswell: Let's do it again. This was fun.
Ashley Wiggers: Absolutely.
Joshua Boswell: Alright. Take care, and God bless you. Thank you so much.
Margie Boswell: Bye.
Ashley Wiggers: You too.
Joshua Boswell: Bye.