Attendees
Aly Pain, Joshua Boswell, Margie Boswell
transcript
Joshua Boswell: Hey friends. We are so excited to have you here today. It is a great honor for us to have Aly Pain with us and Aly is a remarkable individual. What a treat for you to get to know her and spend some time with her during our time together.
So Aly grew up, and Aly you can fill in some more of this, but one of the things I loved is Aly grew up with a little bit of OCD, a little bit of, you know… emotional challenges. She was this super talented, intellectual, athletic individual and deep down inside there was all this stuff turning and going on.
Eating disorders and other struggles that you had, especially in your teenage and young adult years and then you found a way to turn that around. And so now guys again I'm not gonna tell all of her story but she has used that to fuel a just incredible mini empire of helping parents around the world.
Speaking on stages all over the place, providing master classes, resources, courses… all with an effort to help parents like you and me figure out how to live joyfully with teenagers and help them to become amazing adults.
Margie Boswell: And get over the moodiness and the disrespect…
Joshua Boswell: …or at least figure out how to use that to empower them.
Joshua Boswell: And we get an Aly. We've dealt with a few teenaged children. And we know you have as well.
Aly Pain: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: Thank you so much for taking your time to be here today and to engage with us and our listeners. So Margie, I don't know if you want to add anything else?
Margie Boswell: Yeah, we’re excited. We've been through… only nine of our children have been teenagers so far. We have two more to go so… Each one has been very different and unique…
Aly Pain: Yes, they are…
Margie Boswell: And we are still learning and we would love to just continue learning with you on how we can be better and how all of our community can improve in that area.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah exactly. So, we'll start off with… I want to jump right into your background first, because you are one of the most passionate, forceful, energetic people we've ever talked to about this topic. And, you know… we've talked to a lot of energetic, forceful, passionate people. We just love what you bring. And I wanted to start off… tell us a little bit about your background and tell us why this incredible passion for helping parents and teenagers. So lay it on us, give us a little bit of your background and your reasons why.
00:05:00
Aly Pain: First, thank you for having me. This is an absolute pleasure to be part of another platform that is empowering parents. Because this is one of the hardest jobs in the world for which there's no training!
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Aly Pain: So I just want to say for any parent watching this who's struggling or feeling lost, or really resentful of their teenager and angry… It's all normal. It is all okay. Because you can't fail at something you were never trained for. So let's just get that off the table.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, right.
Aly Pain: So my passion is that I… based on what I just said there, I don't believe that parenting needs to feel so hard…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And I certainly don't believe that being a teenager needs to feel so hard. Because there's no training for either one.
And that, from my own experience… which I'll get into a minute, just really breaks my heart. Because we can scientifically prove that when relationships work at home, the rest of life is so much... I'm not gonna say “easy”, but we navigate life in a more skillful way which mitigates perhaps some of the pain and the pitfalls. And so it's that critical.
So for me growing up I was raised by two incredibly loving parents who came from their own significant trauma.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And were parents of the day, which is highly authoritarian, control, power over. Please, this does not make them evil terrible people, they were doing the best they could as well.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
I, unfortunately for them, was completely the opposite and needed something very different which they didn't know, and were never taught because they didn't have access to the information that we have now.
And so for so much time we were just constantly budding heads. I learned in an authoritarian environment, very very strict, that performing was the way that I was lovable. Performing was the way that I wasn't a failure.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Now, I'm cautious when I say this because again, my parents were not raised in an environment where they were ever told anything kind either.
You were only spoken to when you needed correcting, so that was how I was raised. So I learned that performing academically, athletically, with friends, socially, with the neighborhood parents. All of the things… when I performed and did that correctly, I could stop the criticism from coming.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
I wasn't necessarily earning compliments, but I was safe.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Yeah.
Aly Pain: So, that worked for a time. Now thankfully, my father is extremely intelligent. He skipped three grades. I was supposed to skip a grade, but socially they decided, no not for me.
So, I stayed in with my peer age group. But, what they didn't realize at the time, which is similar to my dad, I've actually had this tested… I actually have a photographic memory.
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Aly Pain: So I wasn't actually learning anything. I could just look at things one time,
Joshua Boswell: And you just had it.
Aly Pain: Yeah, I got it. I got it. I'm good. I don't need the repetition of learning, so I seemed really smart. Now, I guess that's up for judgment. I don't know if someone with a photographic memory is really smart or they just have a photographic memory…. like I don't know.
So I could do that. And I was in advanced classes in elementary school and then I got to high school and I was an award-winning athlete. But this whole performative way of living, in order to earn approval or acceptance and be worthy was extremely difficult to keep up with.
Margie Boswell: Right.
Aly Pain: So my anxiety was building because I needed to maintain what I did last time. So I was living actually in fear of failure that fed a wild perfectionist energy, the perfectionist way of thinking.
That also led me to taking diet pills by the time I was 12. I'd ride my bike to the mall and use my babysitting money and use diet pills. Because I also could avoid criticism if I was thin enough, if I was pleasing in the container which I occupied.
00:10:00
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: So there was just a lot of hot messness going on in there, and so much of it because I didn't know who I was. I knew who I needed to be for other people to feel safe and secure, and feel good about themselves.
I did not know who I was or how I needed to be.
Also what my parents did not know which, I know all of this now is I have ADHD.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: So it's…why I was also so obsessive about my sports. Sports was the one place that I could feel good in my body. Because I'd completely dissociated from my body and… as Glenn, and Doyle says, I voted it off the island because it was not supporting me through puberty and the gaining weight and it was not working.
So, I was really disconnected from myself, but when I was in athletics, I was the only place I could connect to my body and I felt really good in my body. And even that stopped working for me… Like I said in puberty, as I was gaining weight and then my muscle mass ratio was changing.
And so everything… the wheels just kind of fell off. Because now I was in advanced classes in high school and I couldn't just regurgitate. Which is actually how our learning institutions are set up. It is rote learning, which is just…
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Aly Pain: Put it in, put it in, put it in, so that you can spit it out, spit it out, spit it out. So I couldn't do that anymore because in higher grades and I was also put in advanced classes, I was required to, wait for it… Actually apply the knowledge.
Joshua Boswell: Terrible. Wow.
Aly Pain: I did not know how to apply the knowledge and so, the entire persona that I had built, that felt safe... It was like my castle. The person that I liked because I received approval for being that person… I couldn't be that person anymore.
Joshua Boswell: Mm-hmm
Aly Pain: The wheels were falling off.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And anything that anybody does for at least 10 years, you'd like to think you're pretty good at.
We begin to identify with. And so, I completely identified with that person. And then all of a sudden I didn't know how to be her. I didn't know how to do the work and I didn't…
My mental health was going downhill so fast. I stopped showing up to sports, which seems questionable, but not a single person asked me why I just stopped showing up to practices. I stopped showing up. I just had depression and anxiety, and I isolated. Because yeah,…
Joshua Boswell: Aly let me pause you for just a minute…
Aly Pain: go ahead.
Joshua Boswell: I want everyone to notice that the story you're telling here, we could take… the details are going to be really different, but you're essentially telling the story of, I don't know what the percentage would be, but 70, 80, 90 percent of teens today. And…
Aly Pain: Right.
Joshua Boswell: Again, we could take out sports and put in academics or we could take out eating disorder and put in video gaming addictions, or we get…
Aly Pain: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: Like… we could swap a lot of different stuff out, but the fundamental idea of, “I was a hot mess and did not know what to do and was having a really hard time” is such a common story.
So I love where you're going with this. So anyway, I just wanted to point out like wow, this is an amazing story you're telling, but this is the story of teens today. It’s incredible.
Aly Pain: It is, because school is a performative environment.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly.
Aly Pain: You are pleasing, safe, and perhaps even receive compliments. So long as you're in the upper… you're 70%, and up. You can disappear and… and be like, I'm sorry, I've lost the word for it. You can kind of disappear off the radar. If you're in that 70% ish range. So you're safe.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: The point is you hear what I'm saying? You're safe. But the minute you fall below a particular mark, perhaps in a class or overall in school, something 60% might be 65.
For me, well I was failing classes actually failing. I don't think I showed up to a single Monday in grade 11, I just skipped them all. That was my way, which is what teenagers do is avoid. Because I had no emotional coping skills. Because again,… my parents were raised the way that every other parent was raised in the generation. Emotions are messy. They were taught, thanks to Dr. John B Watson in 1920 whose work continued until 1960… And even though it is disproven, it is wildly pervasive in our education system and in parenting today, he taught us that emotions are dangerous and…
00:15:00
the only way to change or connect with your teenager is to pay attention to, coerce and change their behavior. You do not pay attention to emotions. And so my parents were raised that way. So of course they were raising me that way.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And so their way of attempting to change me, or this is what we're going to talk about is: “How do I motivate my teen” was punish, consequences, criticism, coercion, shaming, guilt. Which is… The irony is that when you're doing that, you are actually only eliciting emotion.
Through pain points and fear as an attempt to change behavior. You’re not connecting with the emotions, you're trying to leverage the emotions, which is a big difference.
So my parents did a lot of that. And so that was why I isolated and avoided, which is what many teenagers do. And their parents are saying, “But I'm just trying to motivate them. What is it gonna take to make them care?” Well, it's not that because they are so afraid. And they're so afraid and alone and isolated.
And not a single teacher said to me… I was the student class president. I was the Leader of everything and I just stopped showing up. I went from straight A's to F's. I actually just found my transcript the other day… I was cleaning some things out.
And, not one teacher said, “Are you okay”, and not “What's wrong with you?” but “What's happening for you?” “What is it?” “What is it like to be you right now?”
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Not a sports coach, not a teacher… nobody said anything. And so it was further isolating and…
Joshua Boswell: Wow.
Aly Pain: Then this is where it becomes kind of tricky for parents with an intellectual brain that is formed again, being raised often in a performative environment. They’re response is “Why didn't you just go ask for help? How hard is that?”
Joshua Boswell: It can't be that hard. Yeah. Right.
Aly Pain: Let's go for help, the teacher’s right there. Go take your legs, go ask for help. Okay, so the problem with that is in performative environments, asking for help makes you the stupid kid. It makes you the broken one.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. That's right.
Aly Pain: I was already living with such massive fear of failure and perfectionism to be smart enough, lovable, thin enough, important, all the things… I was the student who helped other students.
Joshua Boswell: All the students. Yeah.
Aly Pain: Do you think? And that's who I identified as for I don't know, 10 years.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: But now I knew how to be the student who now was struggling and needed to ask for help? No, our psyche doesn't make that leap without two things.
First of all, exquisite support at an emotional level that feels safe. And number two, the key coping skill as studied by Dr. CR Snyder, and also reaffirmed by many others. But Dr. Brene Brown as well, that the distinction between hopefulness, which by the way… Hope is not a feeling. Hope a way of behaving. It is a way of thinking. Hopefulness and hopelessness, Okay? The defining factor is one thing.
It is that when I struggle or I'm… for whatever reason don't perform or get the result that I was looking, for people who are hopeful have significantly higher levels of resilience and confidence such that they do not attach that external result or performance factor to their worth or value or character so they continue to try and show up and ask for help when they need it.
People who are… a whole generation of teenagers who are feeling hopeless, and then behave… because remember, hope is the way of behaving… who are behaving in a way that is hopeless. It is because they have and continue to in our performative environment internalize struggle, internalize the lack of results as a cut against their worth or value as a human being, and therefore they stop trying and stop showing up and isolate and withdraw out of fear.
Because do you really think, when I already believed that my value was so little, such that I actually attempted to end my life, that I was going to risk trying anything, when I had one straw left of hope, was I going to risk breaking that straw by trying?
Because my belief system said, “But if I try and I don't succeed, then I am a failure” which is all a shame story, by the way, I couldn't risk my one straw. My one straw left.
Joshua Boswell: Of course, yeah.
Aly Pain: And so it becomes the thing of why are teens isolating and they're just not trying and they're laying in their rooms, they're on their phones and video games or eating disorders, or whatever.
It's because we have all been fooled into this whole performative environment, along with behavioralism, which is a way of treating people, which is focused purely on behavior rather than the emotion that drives the behavior.
They're laying in their beds, they're isolating in their rooms, they're smoking marijuana. They're turning to nicotine and vaping and all these things because they are hopeless. They are believing that they are not allowed to struggle. And when they struggle, they are a failure, they are less than, they're unlovable.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah,
Margie Boswell: yeah, really. So it's a great point.
Joshua Boswell: It's a horrible downward spiral that youth are in today…
Aly Pain: It is, yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And it’s perpetuated from all these different generational factors.
So I'm making some notes and I've got a couple of follow-up questions but I think this is probably a good segue because I sense you're gonna share with us some insights on how you got out.
I mean, the wheels fell off the wagon. It skidded out of control somewhere and… you don’t look like you’re off the wagon. And I mean, you look like you have the wheels on now.
Margie Boswell: You figured it out! You’re amazing now.
Joshua Boswell: There's a good story here, and I think we can get into that if we go to really the core question that we wanted to ask you, and that is: If there was one principle that you could identify that would help to resolve or, help get through this and create happier families, and happier teens, happier parents, what is that key principle? What does it look like, what would it be? And maybe we can run down that road and see if we can get some resolution because it's a hot mess right now.
Aly Pain: It is a hot mess, so I think the only way for me to answer that is codependency. Because codependency is one of the outcomes of this performative-based environment and then behavioralism of parenting.
So, one of the definitions of codependency is, I'm not okay, if you're not, okay.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Aly Pain: Okay, so let's kind of take that statement and break it down a little bit. So, if my teenager is struggling, My. Entire. Obsession. Is to fix them.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Because if they're not ok, the way our past generations have been set up, they’re thinking is that “I'm not a good parent.”
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Now also…because of the way this is all been set up. Parenting is not only an Olympic sport, but parent shaming is also an Olympic sport.
Parenting has been conflated with morality. So if I am not a good parent… which I'm obviously not if my teenager is struggling…
Joshua Boswell: And clearly, yeah.
Aly Pain: My identity as a parent is now under question. That is not true. I'm not saying that is true. I'm saying this is…
Joshua Boswell: Right, you're saying that's the belief structure that's existing in Society today. Mm-
Aly Pain: Yeah, this is how codependency is. It’s that the way you be, act, show up, perform is reflecting my value. That is codependency.
Joshua Boswell: Yes. Yeah.
Aly Pain: Whereas, I think that the whole “I'm not okay if you're not” thing is that feelings were never meant to be fixed. Feelings were intended to be felt.
But because we don't know that, we were never taught that… In fact, what we were taught was codependency. I'm betting most people listening to this were taught, had these things said to them: “If you do that, your mother is going to be so angry” and “Don't you do that! Your dad is going to just….”
Do you see how my behavior as a child, as a very young child with an undeveloped brain, I learned my behavior dictated their feelings. So therefore I was responsible for how they felt.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. “You're gonna embarrass the family if you do that.” you know… “I can’t believe…”
00:25:00
Aly Pain: Or you're gonna get in so much trouble…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Because my mother or father are not responsible for their behavior or emotions. Apparently, as a five or four year old, I am. And so now as a parent and…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: again there's no shame against other generations,…
Joshua Boswell: No.
Aly Pain: we're learning. We're learning scientific evidence that this is really toxic and perpetuates mental health issues. Is that, in fact, your teenager's choices, and how they feel that has nothing to do with who you are as a magnificent courageous caring parent here right now, listening to this.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: They are who they are as an autonomous human. You are who you are as an autonomous human. And if you never told that you could lay on the couch all day and eat bonbons and drink your frozen whatever, or your cuppa, you have so much inherent value. And you did nothing. You're here, you're amazing.
Your child may struggle. And I'm not saying you don't care about whether they're struggling, of course, I'm sure it breaks your heart.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: I’m saying… it doesn't change who you are as an incredibly valuable human, and it doesn't change who they are as an incredibly valuable human. It means that they're struggling.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: That's all that means. They don't need to be fixed. So that's one part of this codependency is “I'm not okay if you're not okay,” is that parents are running around as the cleanup crew. Like “Oh, oh no! Okay. don't feel bad. Okay, you feel bad? Okay. I’ll make sure you get that…” No, because they can't be unhappy because what we've been raised as half humans, we've been raised as happy shiny, sparkly people who are all good, everyone's good, right? We're good, right…?
Joshua Boswell: We're good. Yeah.
Aly Pain: Take the blue pill till you're good. And what we know is that, in fact, there are 87 different emotions and feelings. And they are all part and necessary for the whole human experience. And that also, I'm gonna go back to the hopelessness and hopelessness. Do you know how you get from one to the other?
Joshua Boswell: I was gonna ask you to dig into that for us so go.
Aly Pain: Struggle. Pain frustration. Failure. Devastation. Melancholy. All of the non-happy shiny sparkly feelings are how you get… normalizing them, as part of learning and a rich part of the human experience, even when they suck and you feel gross. And like “I can’t go through any more kleenex… My nose… because I cried my eyes out all night.”
Great! I'll sit with you. I have no interest in fixing you, because you're human. That is what is proven as to how you build resilience and confidence to go from hopelessness to hopefulness.
And we don't internalize that those half of the human experience is a derogatory cut against our value, or our potential for success. So that's one part, I think, of the codependency that comes in. And then it's the…
Joshua Boswell: And sorry before you go on. I just want to clarify there. So essentially we're saying is, we've got this codependency system set up. And as part of that, we are isolating our children or trying to isolate our children from the struggle…
Aly Pain: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: But it's the struggle, the acceptable, non-judgmental… “Hey, go ahead and struggle. It's okay, we love you. We're gonna sit with you.” That's actually what brings the hope. And that hope is what brings the resilience and the strength.
Aly Pain: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: So it's a… It's an amazing scenario there where we're not… It's like, we're trying to love them so much, and…
Aly Pain: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: I think that there's part of it, it's like to validate our own value. We're really trying to love ourselves too, and “dang it… If Bobby could just be a great teenage girl, I could be a great parent. We could all love ourselves. So let's fix this.” That's the problem.
Aly Pain: Right? Because I'm always trying to fix you, because I need… So we're parenting from fear of the messed up equation of parenting being morality.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And if my child is successful… I'm therefore a good parent. If my child struggles, I'm therefore a bad parent. That whole messed up thing,…
Joshua Boswell: Crazy.
Aly Pain: But we parent from fear and there's two outcomes that come from that. And one is fear of losing control. Which is authoritarian parenting…
00:30:00
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: which is very much parenting of the day. So I need greater control. So I will use greater punishments and leverage pain and fear to get my child to change, okay?
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, push-ups, beatings.
Aly Pain: Which is how many of us were raised. And then there's parenting from fear which leads to the dichotomy of that, which is permissive parenting.
And now I'm more afraid of conflict. So, I'm either insecure in myself because of codependency, and so I need to control my child and have power over them…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Or I'm insecure about my worth and myself and so I'm afraid of conflict. So I don't address anything and I want them to be my friend and so there's no guidance or effective, healthy boundaries or structure. And so that leads to many of the same outcomes.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, so I saw this so clearly. I mean, my parents divorced when I was nine and they got remarried and then they divorce again, I was 11. But the point is that my dad, who I'm great friends with now and my mother's passed away, which was… we had a great relationship. But my dad was very, very very authoritarian, right? Especially with the older children. It was interesting to watch my sister… who was the second child, raise her children in the pendulum swung, right?
And she was... today we would definitely say that she was physically abused and really, really hammered on when she was young.
Aly Pain: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And so… raising her children was like…
Margie Boswell: Free for all.
Joshua Boswell: essentially total anarchy. And I'm not criticizing or…
Aly Pain: Yes, yes.
Joshua Boswell: blaming her, but it was just like “I'm not going to do to them what was done to me, so hands off baby.”
Aly Pain: Right, and that is exactly the point. Is because there is no training for this, if you said “I hate chocolate. I don't like chocolate anymore.” What's the first flavor that comes to mind?
Joshua Boswell: Chocolate.
Aly Pain: and the opposite being Vanilla. Because our brains are wired. Such that if we say “I'm going to do different. I'm definitely doing different. I'm not doing that.” Our brains hear opposite, because we have no frame of reference for a middle ground… because we're not taught this, because we're still… this still isn't pervasive enough…
And so our brains don't just do “different.” We think “Different? Ah, let's go to a little bit less, but a middle ground.” Well, that's what our intellectual brains think. That's what I thought I was going to do, thank you, Mary Poppins. But actually what I did was some of the complete opposite, because I had no frame of reference for either.
Aly Pain: So, I went from Authoritarian… shame, criticism, all the way over to just, “I'll love you for anything.” But then I still had these weird patterns that kept showing up over here on authoritarian. And I'm like, where's….?
Joshua Boswell: Where is it?
Aly Pain: Bad news. It's an unmarked exit.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, yeah.
Margie Boswell: Yeah, that's right.
Aly Pain: It is an unmarked exit. The gravel road next to the blue spruce with the fence post that's broken. And so it still is unfortunately a road less traveled. Not because, again, anyone watching isn't smart or intelligent or doesn't care enough or isn't loving enough. It's because we're not being taught enough.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And the older generations, the older ways of thinking and being are still pervasive enough. We believe that that is either normal or we're running away from them to create “different,” but what we're doing is opposite, not middle ground.
Margie Boswell: Yeah. I love what you said about the struggle, and it's going through the struggle that's going to get them to become Resilient.
Aly Pain: Yeah.
Margie Boswell: One thing we like to talk about is God, He is more concerned about our growth than our comfort. Right?
Aly Pain: 100% of the time.
Margie Boswell: Yeah, he's the ultimate parent that we can look at. And He's not just gonna give us everything that we ask for just… constantly. Just give us everything we pray for, everything, right immediately, here you go. He's not a great vending machine in heaven, right?
Joshua Boswell: And… He's also not whacking us every single time we make any kind of mistake.
Margie Boswell: Yeah, He allows us to grow through the struggle.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, that would be terrible. God’s like, “Oh… you made a mistake? BOOM” Okay. Ouch.
Aly Pain: But okay, to be fair there are many parents who I work with, who have Christian faith, and operate still very much from the Old Testament.
Joshua Boswell: Fair enough. Yeah, yes.
Aly Pain: Which to your point is… is very consequential
Aly Pain: It's more transactional,…
Joshua Boswell: Punitive. Yeah. Yeah.
Aly Pain: 'It’s like “You did this? I’ll do this! You do this, I'll do this. You go big, I'll go higher.” And so I think there's a whole other half of the book called the New Testament. And the New Testament is where we need to anchor in that. As you said, God is the epitome of unconditional love. Does he say It's okay? No. Is He going to love me in my most broken…
00:35:00
Aly Pain: times where I feel there's no answer, like He did for me and…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: the reason I am still here and my attempt to say that's enough didn't work. Because, I was loved in all of my brokenness by at least one person.
Joshua Boswell: That's right.
Aly Pain: Yeah. Yeah.
Margie Boswell: So great. Thank you for sharing that.
Joshua Boswell: And you were given space to make those mistakes and the loving support. Like you said, it's like, we don't make that transition from hopeless to hopeful without… I think the words you used were incredible or incessant support? Some word... That was awesome. It's like we need this massive amount of support and
Aly Pain: Exquisite support.
Joshua Boswell: Exquisite. That's the word, yes. Thank you.
Aly Pain: Exquisite meaning… you are walking into someone's sacred space when you are walking into their emotional storm.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: So going in there as a cleanup crew or with all of your top cleaning claws. And your best vacuum and all the mops and the paint and the ladders. No. No. Put them away. You are walking into someone's sacred space and…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: …and what they need, more than anything, is for you to simply be with them. To see them, to validate that their humanity is never at question.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Yeah.
Margie Boswell: Wonderful.
Joshua Boswell: And I think that that is, you know, in my times of crisis and struggle, that is, I… I’ve felt that perfectly from two different beings in this universe. One is God, second is Margie. And I really mean that. Margie's, Margie's, the, you know, the ideal candidate for this. She's incredible at it. But it's so, it's so important, because you know, hey, I have my own great emotional storms and we’ve watched our children go through those emotional storms, and it is sacred ground, you're absolutely right.
Aly Pain: Right? Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Where, where do we go? Where, where is that exit? Where is the gravel road next to the blue sign? What's… what are some things that, specific things, that we can help, you know, our community with in terms of finding at least the entrance so they can start traveling down that road?
Aly Pain: Right. Yeah. So the first thing I want to say is, again, if you're listening to this and you're still listening to this, this far, you're probably different curious. To use woke language. You're probably different curious. So yay! Different is a great place to start.
Aly Pain: I'm really cautious with my words. I think in the Internet land, there's all these things you can find out about like “Don't do this! You're a bad parent if you do this…” and that's the authoritarian parent side and then there's this permissive side that has less structure, and it's more about being your teenager's friend and not necessarily providing some of the emotional guidance and support that they're looking for.
And then there's sort of I think the new word, which is gentle parenting, and I'm gonna be really clear right now. I am not a gentle parent, nor do I consider… call it gentle parenting. And again, I'm only saying this from the perspective of, because this information is not widely… it's not pervasive enough yet.
Aly Pain: When my brain, which is only here… and remember, I'm focused on “different.” So I know I'm moving away from authoritarian and I don't want permissive because that's apparently also really bad and I don't want to be judged and shamed. Gentle is two steps away.
So that's not helpful. because I don't know what that means.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Yeah.
Aly Pain: So what I call it, what I call my platform, what I anchor in, and what I believe I did… and I've had feedback from and done a whole YouTube video on what my kids actually thought about this whole parenting thing with me… is I say it's respectful parenting.
There's a reason I think that helps us find this unmarked road of middle ground is respectful parenting because it brings into play everything we've discussed until now. I need to respect myself. Enough to know that I am an autonomous, valuable, magnificent human being because I'm here and my worth is not tied up in my child.
I need to redefine respect because in authoritarian parenting, we were taught respect equals compliance.
Joshua Boswell: Yes, right.
00:40:00
Aly Pain: Immediate obedience and compliance and that is respect. Well, unfortunately, our parents were sold down the river on that. Not their fault, and then so far so were we. And so that's not respect.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: So, in order to do respectful parenting… I need to first figure out what is respect, which is a deep admiration for someone else's emotions, values and stance. Okay? That doesn't sound like compliance or obedience. So in order to instill a deep respect, I need to have one for myself.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: I need to figure out how to have a deep respect for my teenager while still walking this tightrope of respecting myself. Because the minute I give it up, I'm permissive parenting or I'm trying to control.
Joshua Boswell: There you go.
Aly Pain: So that's why I think if we put a signpost on that dirt road on that hard to find exit and we say respectful parenting, I think it is a better marker than gentle parenting which is two steps off of permissive.
Aly Pain: Only, I'm not saying… Okay I should be really cautious. I know a lot of incredible people who stand on the platform and gentle parenting and they're amazing and backed in science.
Gentle parenting is not two steps from permissive, but unless you have a felt experience of it, it sounds too much the same. That's all I am saying…
Joshua Boswell: Yes, right.
Aly Pain: That is what I'm saying. Okay. So what I call respectful parenting is very aligned with the current gentle parenting…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: but I believe calling it respectful parenting is a little easier to identify with instead of doing this different, opposite thing.
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Aly Pain: Because we just blew right by the exit and you just missed it. And so I think if we can have a look at what is respect… Are you willing to understand that what you were taught and what your loving, amazing, incredible parents were taught was respect is actually not respect.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
Aly Pain: That came from behavioralism. Thank you, Dr. Watson for that, which we've now disproven actually, is not only unethical, it is emotionally traumatizing and does not match the science of how our brains were created to work. So we need to redefine respect.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: We need to redefine what self-respect looks like because if I don't know that, how am I actually modeling it?
Margie Boswell: Yeah, that's right.
Aly Pain: So that's respect for myself. Defining what is respecting this human being that I'm raising? In a way where I say, “Hang on now. Nope. Speaking with me like that. Is not okay.”
Joshua Boswell: Okay, right.
Aly Pain: Without going to “We're gonna shut that down right now” because I am deeming their raw, wild, emotional hot mess (which is normal for the team brain) as disrespect because anything… remember, we were children who were only spoken when we were spoken to, we to be compliant. We needed to be appropriate….
That's not actually normal. That's not an autonomous human, that's a robot. And we're not raising robots, we're raising all humans, remember? With the whole 87 emotions, not just the shiny sparkly ones.
So our teenagers are gonna come at us with these emotional blow ups and… you know, everything's our fault and they're using all this five chilly spice language enough to melt your eyebrows off and be like, “Okay, I don't love your language. I love you, I don’t love your language.”
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: “I want to hear what you have to say. I love you and your feelings matter to me. I'm gonna take a five minute break.” Because remember I'm in respectful parenting, I'm modeling respect.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: I respect you enough to hear what you have to say, and I respect me enough to say Those specific words and phrases… (and you must be specific) ...have crossed my line of respect. Because I've done the work to redefine it, by the way. So, I'm allowing you to have anger. I’m allowing you to have disappointment, and frustration, and arrogance, and all the normal feelings.
And I'm not saying that's disrespectful, I'm saying these specific words and phrases are disrespectful. And so, I'm going to take a five minute break and I'm going to come back. Because I do love you.
Now, your teenager’s going to feel abandoned and shut down and they're gonna be angry, and then you keep your word, and then at four minutes and 59 seconds, you walk exactly back. Because you remember that's respect.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Punctual, Reliable… that's respect. You come back and you say, I love you. I want to hear what you have to say. Can we try that again? And they might still have been yelling. They're like, you don't care about me! You don’t…
And it's okay for them to feel that way. But what when you return, because you are respectful, so you kept your word and you returned, and you said, Try that again. It's just these certain words and phrases just felt over my line. Can you say that in a different way?
00:45:00
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And they might say… No you don't love me. They might say No… I don't know… Because they just went from 16 basic emotions to 87. So, just four and a half times and…
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Aly Pain: they aren't like a phone that you plug in and guess who gets a software update overnight. No, no… it didn't happen.
Funny little joke… self-advocacy, and then learning language for that new, massive four and a half-time growth in motions… that's on you. I know, nobody ever told you.
So, this is how this is gonna happen, and it's gonna go down by you continuing to allow them to refine their message, not suppress the message. I don't know if you've tried holding the lid on a boiling pot before, but somebody's gonna get burnt. What we're trying to do is turn down the burner.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: That's the source of the boil. Not hold the lid on, And that's a difference between behavioralism,…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: is I only pay attention to the behavior and the outcome and what I'm seeing as opposed to what is the source, which in psychology we can prove is emotions. Emotions are 100% the source of all behavior. So if I want my child to be raised as a whole human…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Then we're going to give them the whole experience. And I'm gonna keep coming back and then they get spicy again, and I say What, okay, I love you. Your feelings matter to me, I'm going to come back in five minutes. Let's try this again.
And when you are respectful, which means you keep your word, you are reliable and you come back on time. And you keep your promise of I will listen to you, not fix you, because you don't need fixing. What you're trying to do is feel. I want you to feel.
I'm just helping you refine the expression of that. So that it is empowering and you feel heard and you know… this is one of the ways we go to respectful.
And so that's kind of the example I use for the whole big picture of respectful parenting, where there is a hundred percent room for emotions. And we are a hundred percent paying attention to the refinement of the expression of their humanity.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: So, that's behavior and emotions and not making it pleasing for me, because that's disrespectful to them, but making it pleasing… Yeah, we're helping them to refine it so that it, number one, feels authentic to them.
I'm a real clear about that authentic to them. And that given your experiences and adults who has a fully formed brain, you are doing your best to help in that refinement based on everything you know to help them self-advocate in a way that is going to land with the person they're speaking with. That, is going to have them feel empowered and heard and have effective words and language.
Because we can also prove in science that when we have language to express our words, our feelings are our human experience… mental health instantly improves.
Margie Boswell: That's so great. And I'm sure all of us, everyone listening to this, watching this is imagining these situations in their home with their teenager right now, and how just that one tool that you've explained can help us so much.
Aly Pain: Right. Right.
Joshua Boswell: And you know what I love is that, we talked about this… well, I know that when you don't feel value… you talked about that one single step, one last straw, and it's like, That's the last straw of any scrap of self value that I feel. Am I going to really risk that? And the answer is no. And those that do, of course, end their life and that's the ultimate expression of the straw is gone, right?
And sadly, we see that. I mean suicide rates are just way, way unacceptably high for our teems,…
Aly Pain: Unacceptably high.
Joshua Boswell: But what I love about your approach here is that even in the midst of what the authoritative and the performance based parenting would say is out of bounds, uncontrolled language, totally disrespectful all the negative things we want to assign to that… even in the midst of all that it's like:
I respect you. You have value and I'm going to treat you like you have value. And it's okay for you to have... It's okay that the pot’s boiling over, like you don't get it, let's just figure out how to turn the heat down. This is easy.
And, the approach of giving that love and giving that value in the midst of the storm is unbelievably powerful and respectful. And I think that it shows a level of maturity and understanding that most parents don't use because they don't know. Right?
Aly Pain: Right.
Joshua Boswell: Well, if you're listening to this now, you know now. Right? Aly’s like: Here’s the exit people. Here's the first step. I love it.
00:50:00
Aly Pain: Yeah, I'm like the crazy person at the exit with the fluorescent badge, and all neon and I've got my waving signs.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, you have your waving sign out…
Aly Pain: And unfortunately, I keep seeing cars going whizzing past. I'm like ahh… missed that one. Okay, I'm gonna keep trying,…
Margie Boswell: You’re doing it! Keep it up.
Joshua Boswell: Okay, okay you might already be going down here, but one of the most interesting things about what you said is this where you said, I've taken time to define those boundaries and what respect is for me.
Aly Pain: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And the second thing that I find incredibly fascinating is this Okay, as parents we definitely have roles. I mean, I think that God clearly set up this system of: Oh… you get this baby who's totally helpless and guess what? you get to be the caregiver, right? You get to be the guide, the mentor, the loving… the role model.
And so we do have this incredible responsibility, this divine opportunity to bless these children's lives and setting up our own boundaries. And also you talk about getting them a language set. So they can better understand what in the world is going on. I think you said these 19 emotions to the 87. If I got those numbers right.
Aly Pain: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: It's like Ahhh my world just exploded and I don't know what's going on. So… I would love to hear… and I'm keeping a little bit of an eye on our time. I don't want to chew too much of your time, but I would love for just a few minutes to help better understand your process of setting… you don't have to tell me all the exact boundaries… but your process of creating those boundaries and some of your insights on giving them that language set and helping them understand these emotions without them feeling diminished or less valuable right? Like… You're feeling this: What's wrong with you?!
Aly Pain: Right. Right.
Joshua Boswell: I mean, I've heard that from parents so many times: Why would you think that? What's wrong with you?…
Aly Pain: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Joshua Boswell: Like… Nothing wrong. They just don't understand. So those two things are things that are really interesting to me, is the boundaries and the language set. And if you feel like there's something even better we should talk about, go for it. But that really fascinates me.
Aly Pain: Yeah, so the biggest thing is being open-minded enough to understand that what you learned was respect is not actually respect. Because so many people…
Joshua Boswell: Yes. Yeah.
Aly Pain: who come into my programs, the first thing I do is I tell them the definition of what is respect and they usually are typing in the comments in some of my live programs like “mind blown” because this is what… this is so diametrically opposed to how we've been raised. And so, of course, we're doing what we learned, which is also habitually normal in our brains and we can't figure out why it's not working.
And so redefine respect. Then I talk about what is a boundary and what a boundary is not. Because we also learned a boundary is not manipulation, coercion… And those might sound like big words. So coercion is leveraging fear or pain for the purpose of changing behavior. So that's the whole I'm taking your phone.
The phone has nothing to do… It's not correlated at all to the transgression but because that seems to be the biggest pain point. So that’s coercion. That's not a boundary. Most of us learned that threats and ultimatums. “If you don't do this I’ll…” That's a threat.
Joshua Boswell: yeah.
Aly Pain: Or… “Either do this or I'll do… something.” Those are manipulations, those are not all boundaries. And most parents who come to my programs, bless all of them, were taught exactly the same thing. So we have to redefine respect. We got to redefine what a bad boundary actually is, and then I give them a worksheet…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: …in my program that helps them go back to this respectful parent. Okay… What is important to you? Name the change you want. What's the change you want to see? What's important to you about it?
Aly Pain: What specifically feels respectful about that change? And that instant, what we're starting to peel back is, Are you looking for obedience and compliance? Or is this actually a boundary?
Joshua Boswell: Yes, exactly. Love it.
Aly Pain: Okay, because a lot of the things I just want my kids to do. I mean… Do I have an ego? Yes, am I human? Yes. Do I want my kids to just look at me and nod and do everything I say? Yes. Is that realistic? No. Would that help them? No. And do I need more power? Probably not. So that's not a good idea.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. Yeah.
Aly Pain: So we have to define is whether you're even asking for a boundary. Or is it an insecurity point, where I feel like I'm losing control, which triggers all kinds of things in our brains. So when we dial it down, we go through what they learned, what a boundary is, what is the change you want? And is this actually a boundary or is this something that you're just feeling really frustrated about and we need to just work through that you're not getting compliance? Then I take them through the specific language on how to word a boundary.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Aly Pain: Because boundaries come from ownership. Boundaries. Okay,…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: so this is another part that I talk about boundaries. We were often raised in expectations. Now expectations are behavioral. They are cultural norms. They're necessary in the world like, stop at a stop sign. Don't run over pedestrians, like those are pretty important expectations.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Aly Pain: They are behavioral, but they're also transactional. So if I run that stop sign, the consequences is I get a ticket. If I hit a pedestrian, dear Lord, please no… there's probably going to be more significant injury and damage later down the road. So it's a transaction. You do this, I do this, you do this, I do this, that's the law.
Those don't work in relationships. Those are transactional. They are not relational.
Remember all behaviors driven by emotions, so we need to address the emotion to get the change. So, a boundary comes from ownership. This is how I want to feel. This is what is okay and not okay for me. And I'm gonna share with you what works for me. And then I'm going to be open to your input on what works for you. Because the boundary is not a demand or command either.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: This is where lots of parents say, Well that's being permissive. Because what? My child is like a collaborative parent? No, but they are autonomous human.
Joshua Boswell: There are human. Exactly. Yeah.
Aly Pain: Specifically a teenager. So I'm not asking you… boundaries, have a bottom line, and I gotta go in, as any good negotiator, I gotta know, What's my bottom line? But there's always a gray area. And so there is a bit of a negotiation. It doesn't mean you are giving up authority, which can feel very frightening. It feels like I'm giving up control.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: I'm being permissive. No, you are allowing your teenager Self-advocacy. To begin to express their own wants, needs and…
01:00:00
Aly Pain: what is respectful to them.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: To see if you can find a middle ground without ever crossing your bottom line. Because ultimately, you are the parent. And bottom lines are still bottom lines. And in a healthy hierarchy, which is important for psychological structure, there has to be a bottom line. A buck stops here. Something, right?
Joshua Boswell: Sure right. Yeah.
Aly Pain: So what we're aiming for as Prentice Hemphill says this was in Dr. Bernie Brown's, Atlas of the Heart, a boundary is the place at which I simultaneously love and respect you and me.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Aly Pain: Now, Mary Poppins, I thought I would be. I tell parents, it is never going to be that you're dancing on the head of a pin. It just doesn't happen.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, right.
Aly Pain: Sometimes as close as you will get is different sides of the Grand Canyon.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: So be it. So long as you remain in respectful conversation about what is respectful for you and what feels respectful for them and you are actually listening, not placating, you’re actually listening to what feels respectful to them. You will eventually close that gap.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: But relationships are not an easy button, they're not a send button.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Aly Pain: They are work. And so it takes effort and time to find that middle ground. Never in which are you giving up or negotiating your bottom line. Because if you come from respect, you model respect. Now at first, we might give up our bottom line because like… this feels weird. I'm off balance and okay. Great. Sure. That's fine. Part of learning, right?
Okay, so that's how we go through the boundary process. And then we lead to the other side of boundaries, which comes back from, But what if they don't do it? I get more parents where I haven't even finished saying the part that I just said and they're like, But what if they don't do…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah What if they don’t do it?! Yeah.
Aly Pain: What if they don't do it? And that is authoritarian thinking that comes from the need for instant obedience and compliance. And that is not a relationship, that's a transaction.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: That's not a relationship and so I say like… A boundary… if you're more worried about, what if they don't do it, it's like you're running around, you're either playing like whack-a-mole, the video game, or the mole pops up and you're trying to constantly stop them from popping up or you're running around with a sledgehammer and putting holes in the walls everywhere. Hang on. We haven't even seen where the dents are.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, right.
Aly Pain: You don't go stamping consequences everywhere that you see them out of compliance or not being obedient. So then I have this whole… My compassionate consequence formula, which is scientifically backed in phycology and behavior change, for connection before correction.
Joshua Boswell: Mmm.
Aly Pain: I don't take any credit for that. I believe that came from Dr. John Gottman. So connect before you correct because we can prove that behavior changes at an emotional level. So if you don't connect with those emotions, What happens when we lean into coercion and taking the phone, is we see temporary change and it just keeps happening over and over and over and it gets more and more frustrating because all your teenagers doing is losing respect for you.
Joshua Boswell: Yep.
Aly Pain: Because coercion is toxic and… they'll only change for whatever time is necessary to get back, what it is that they lost and then they're going to go back to being what they're being because you're only ever looking at the surface. The outcome,…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, exactly.
Aly Pain: the result, the behavior. So the compassionate consequence is how do you connect in the transgression… To go back to that hopeful/hopeless… So they feel hopeful. Not because you're making the transgression okay. No. No. Never said that. I understand this feels scary. But so that you can find out Why were they doing that? Or better yet… Because they don't always know… What was the emotional experience they were trying to create?
Joshua Boswell: Yes.
Aly Pain: What were they hoping would be the outcome? Because sometimes the outcome that happened, they actually had no control over. So, you gotta go back in the dominoes… like back, a hundred dominoes to what were they thinking before? What were they trying to create? And then, what choice did they make that may have led to said outcome?
But if you're only consequencing basing on the outcome, it's like trying to put a fire out by chasing the smoke.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, exactly. You can't get there. It makes me think of a number years ago Marge and I were traveling. We're in an airport. It was just two of us and right…. we're at this restaurant in this airport and right across from us was this family with two beautiful little girls, probably around three and five or six, right? And both parents were sitting there on their phones. And these children sat there respectfully. They had good behavior for about two minutes and then they were all over the board,…
01:05:00
Aly Pain: Yes. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: And they're climbing on the table and they were knocking stuff over and they were interrupting the guests behind them and Mom and Dad... And so, finally the dad blows up, right? and…
Aly Pain: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And I thought about this and this is exactly what you're saying. So the problem was not what the child was doing. The emotion they were after was love and value from Mom and Dad, they wanted to be noticed and that they wanted mom and dad be aware that. And Mom and Dad were
Aly Pain: Yeah. Yeah, or… they might have wanted. I mean my gosh. I used to take my kids grocery store that... I swear, what my children saw was an obstacle course, I'm in a store.
Joshua Boswell: Ahhh right,…
Aly Pain: What they saw is, oh look, an obstacle course! And I'm like,…
Joshua Boswell: Look it’s fun!! Go, go. Yeah.
Aly Pain: And so these kids might have been saying, Notice me. Why are you on your phone? Because digital distraction is a big thing.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Aly Pain: I just want you to play with me? Or maybe. Wow, stuff to climb on.
Joshua Boswell: I'm a child. Yeah.
Aly Pain: I want to discover my body and how can I do this? And whatever… but you're right. It wasn't that they were trying to piss anybody off.
Joshua Boswell: Exactly right. Exactly. And I think that the point here is that you going back to the Domino's and saying, Okay, what emotion were they trying to create? And teenagers are the same way.
Aly Pain: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: We've seen this and I've been on the other side of the Grand Canyon from my teenagers before, right?
Aly Pain: Oh me too!
Joshua Boswell: And in reflection, looking back it’s like Oh… actually, this was an emotion they were trying to create or that they wanted to have and they had no idea how to create that. And so ergo they were doing what they saw on the internet, or their friends or with whatever it was. They're just trying to piece it together to create that thing.
Aly Pain: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Or… our children gratefully have never gotten into any kind of drug use at all. But we see a lot of teens. It's like… I want emotion here. Smoking pot might give me that. Right?
Aly Pain: Mmm.
Joshua Boswell: Or whatever it is. So that realization that you're talking about… understanding, looking back and saying it's an emotion that they're after. I think that is incredibly powerful, Aly. I'm having an epiphany here. It's beautiful. Wow.
Aly Pain: That's so good. Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: Awesome. All right so when I hear you saying here… and again I'm just a little cognisant of time here because we could go on for hours, this is incredible. But defining respect and understanding that that respect has a totally different definition, understanding that…
Aly Pain: Mm-hmm
Joshua Boswell: …that respect has a totally different definition. Understanding that… at the root of that real definition of respect we can start to create actual boundaries where we respect each other, and right?
Aly Pain: Right.
Joshua Boswell: And there's that love there. All actions are driven by emotions. I mean,…
Aly Pain: Yes.
Joshua Boswell: I know this from my persuasive copyrighting and all my marketing. It's like… we do not sell on stats and data and facts and figures. Ever.
Aly Pain: Right. Nope. Yes.
Joshua Boswell: It's all emotions. And I love this about how boundaries equal ownership and these expectations that we have. And what are the roots of those and really reflecting… you didn't use the word and maybe this authoritative background I come from but, it's like, Okay, are we doing that out of selfish motives to, self validate or to try to look good or whatever it is, or are we doing this because we respect us and we respect them and we want them to be not more valuable, but the best versions of themselves, right? It's like…
Aly Pain: Right. Yes.
Joshua Boswell: It's like, okay, we're gonna help understand how to do this.
The other comment that I want to make real quick, and then I want to hear any kind of last words or insights from you and then I want to talk a little bit more about your program. Because you mentioned a few things about what you do with parents. And I just want to get some more clarity on that program a little bit
But I think that the other thing here is that when we as parents step back and have our own boundaries, what I'm understanding from you is that we become autonomous, right. We're no longer… There's two things that I think are fascinating.
One is I really don't want… And maybe it's because I don't want to feel like a bad parent, but I don't want my children being in there, being married and having children just living in the basement till they're 30, or 40, and not contributing society, or do anything like that.
Number one because I don't think it'll be rewarding for them, maybe that's judgmental. But I want them to go out and to become who God wants them to become and probably…
Margie Boswell: Not live in your shadow, right?
Joshua Boswell: Right, not live in my shadow. I want them to be independent. And what you're talking about here is… Oh. Let me understand your emotions. And you're teaching them to take ownership of that and to have value regardless of what those are.
It’s just beautiful. And we get to be independent and autonomous as parents. And to be valuable regardless of what choices our children make. It's an incredible combination.
01:10:00
Aly Pain: Right. Right.
Joshua Boswell: I just want to make sure following you and connecting the dots with what you're saying so far.
Aly Pain: Yeah, it's all of those things and I think that again, the marker that stops people at respectful parenting, is that none of that means that you're giving up healthy authority.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, that's right. Mmm.
Aly Pain: It’s redefining what authority means. You… There must be a healthy hierarchy for the psychology of their brains to develop effectively.
Joshua Boswell: That's right. Yeah.
Aly Pain: Okay, so it’s that authority does not mean power over or control, and… it doesn't mean doing “different” such that when we have none. It means that you are still the buck stops here person. You're still the bottom line person. But you're doing it by a relationship, not command, control, sell, tell, obedience. So, I'm not saying don’t be the parent. I will never say that…. Again, I am not a gentle parent. I’m just not
My kids never wonder where I stand. Ever. I will sit and listen to them and we will be in conversation and I will continue to find and refine that closest point we can meet. Absolutely.
But I will not… this is not a free for all. And you will do things that you don't enjoy.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Aly Pain: Not because it is for my pleasure or my gain, but because the world is not a candy store, it's not set up for your pleasure. It's set up for your growth, which is what you said in the beginning. And that just as my children were shocked, and in disbelief to believe that I do not like grocery shopping, I do it because it is a function of me getting to have healthy food and feel good in my brain and body so that everyone has the experience they want when it's here.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: So raking leaves may not be something you want to do but it is not child labor. Woe is you. It is part of the capacity and capability you have to contribute so that we all have the experience we want in this house.
Margie Boswell: There you go. So great.
Joshua Boswell: Love it. Hey Aly, I pray. We've got to wrap up, but holy smackles, man, this is an absolutely incredible.
Margie Boswell: We've learned so much and I think I’m going to go and implement some of these things and talk with our teenagers about these things.
Joshua Boswell: Clearly is just just the tip of the iceberg, so, just briefly, tell us a little bit more about the program you've been alluding to because I have no doubt that Margie and I would love to dive into it, and also others in our community would love to dive into it. So, tell us a little bit about that and yeah, just give us give us the background on it.
Aly Pain: Sure! So the program is The Empowered Parent Program and it is eight online modules that were all put together, again based on my experience as a teenager, what I experienced, what I desperately wanted that my parents were never empowered with…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Everything I learned in a decade or so of therapy recovering. I also did a ton of personal development in communications and then in my own coach training and certification, and raising two humans to young adulthood as well. So it's all of that smooshed together.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: It’s heavily researched because I truly believe everything I say has got to be founded and backed in, not only personal experience, but backed by science and research-based. But it’s as you and I are talking, it's not sciencey, it is backed by science. So that it's an easy to understand and easy to unpack step-by-step program.
Everything from parenting and generational beliefs, boundaries and consequences, mental health and big emotions, the Internet, teen dating, relationships and sex. Look, I talk about ALL of the things…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah, good.
Aly Pain: …in these eight modules that are online and you get access to my private parenting community, where I'm in their daily and I do live q&a's, so you're not just diving into something but you can't ask a question.
Joshua Boswell: Right.
Aly Pain: And for everything you get lifetime access. So there's no rushing through it. It's there for you because a lot of times you might have one teen going through something, and then you hit the exhale for a year and then lo and behold you have another child who's doing it entirely differently.
01:15:00
Joshua Boswell: Totally differently.
Margie Boswell: Learn it again!
Aly Pain: And you got to look at the whole thing differently. So, yeah, So it's my signature program and I've helped… Every parent that goes through it comes from different places, different struggles and it is 100% guaranteed no judgment space, no judgment. I have no tolerance for it. So it's a safe space.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah. And your testimonials from parents who have gone through the program. We took some time to review them. They are… They're amazing. And the way that it's helping people… So, if you're listening to this right now, Margie and I want to wholeheartedly, energetically, lovingly endorse Aly's program. Literally, you've gotten a taste of it today, and you've seen some insights on what it can do.
I think that Aly, you're obviously full of wisdom after wisdom after wisdom from the experience, and the study and the research and the application that you've done. And so, Eight modules packed full of this this would just be absolutely ideal for so many people in our community, so thank you very much.
Aly Pain: Yeah.
Joshua Boswell: We will get specific links out to everybody. And we're gonna share this with as many people who can because we think that this is really helpful. Very very helpful.
Aly Pain: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.
Joshua Boswell: One last thing. Anything that I should have asked you or could have asked you that you would like to share with us real quick, and closing, or any last thoughts real quick?
Aly Pain: No, I just want to say again that, for any parents. You're doing the best that you can. I absolutely believe you're doing the best you can.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And it is not your fault that you have not been given this information. It is an opportunity for you to get the information…
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: Because being a parent does not need to be this hard. You cannot fail at something you were never trained at.
Joshua Boswell: Yeah.
Aly Pain: And your teenager isn't broken, and you didn't break them. So let's go do this together. It's messy. And I will walk with you every step of the way.
Joshua Boswell: Love it.
Margie Boswell: So great.
Joshua Boswell: Aly, thank you so much for your time. You've gone above and beyond and shared so many nuggets of wisdom with us. We really appreciate it. So thank you.
Aly Pain: Yeah, thank you.
Joshua Boswell: All right… We'll talk to you soon.
Joshua Boswell: Thank you.
Aly Pain: Okay, bye.
